Is there a reason to hire Sellswords?

[WastedTrojan]

After picking up a few Sellswords recently I don't see the point in hiring them anymore. Their starting stats aren't good enough to justify the insane wage. Their statline usually looks like:

~55 health
~95 fatigue
~35 resolve
60-63 melee attack
45-49 ranged attack
~7 in both defenses

If I want melee I can just get a raider that has roughly the same stats only with less ranged attack and ranged defense and he costs 1/2 the daily wage of the sellsword. I can hire a hedge knight for a superior melee fighter with a similar daily wage. A 200 gold thief with dexterous would compete with this starting statline for a melee fighter.

I can hire any number of recruits that start with ~50 ranged attack and cost ~10 per day or I can just hire a hunter that starts near 60 ranged attack and costs less than 1/2 the upkeep of the sellsword.

Sellswords would have a place if you want somebody who is decent at everything without being really good at anything. Since the change to allow ranged weapons to fire over friendly shoulder's I haven't really found a good use for hybrids later in the game. The polearm can be replaced by a few stacks of throwing axes with throwing mastery and duelist and I don't have to invest in melee skill.

If im going to spend better than 50 gold per day on one guy, I want him to be as good as a hedge knight. Right now it just seems that the most expensive background in the game doesn't live up to the price tag.

[cloning_souls]

raiders have a bad event that can lead to making enemies,. but yeah sell swords are expensive and willl keep demanding a raise in wages

[Adam]

Let's compare. Average stats (taken from the updated spreadsheet[docs.google.com]):

Sellsword: 55 HP, 95 Fat, 40 Res, 105 Init, 63.5 MA, 48 RA, 9 MD, 9 RD, 35 Wage
Hedge knight: 67.5 HP, 107.5 Fat, 41.5 Res, 94.5 Init, 62.5 MA, 37 RA, 8 MD, 2.5 RD, 35 Wage
Raider: 55 HP, 96 Fat, 33.5 Res, 105 Init, 63 MA, 39.5 RA, 8 MD, 8 RD, 28 Wage

So the sellsword has lower health and fatigue, higher iniative, slightly higher melee attack & defense, and significantly higher ranged attack & defense.

I guess I agree that the extra 12.5 HP and 12.5 Fat on average makes the hedge knight a better choice, for me. The ranged abilities are better but for ranged you go with a hunter.

As far as I know, people tend to buy Sellswords for duelist builds, but I've never made a duelist build. I like my armor.

[bouchard_670]

Originally posted by Fiasco:

Since the change to allow ranged weapons to fire over friendly shoulder's I haven't really found a good use for hybrids later in the game.

What do you mean exactly? You could always fire over-the-shoulder since early access.

[CHOO CHOO]

Sellswords are asshats. Best average stats in the game? Money-grubbing deserters, that's what they are.

[Wyrtt]

Originally posted by bouchard_670:

Originally posted by Fiasco:

Since the change to allow ranged weapons to fire over friendly shoulder's I haven't really found a good use for hybrids later in the game.

What do you mean exactly? You could always fire over-the-shoulder since early access.

No you could not, You would fire directly in the back of your brother, Before you had to switch for backrow weaponry to fight in 2 tile range hence popularity of hybrids

[bouchard_670]

Originally posted by Wyrtt:

Originally posted by bouchard_670:

What do you mean exactly? You could always fire over-the-shoulder since early access.

No you could not, You would fire directly in the back of your brother, Before you had to switch for backrow weaponry to fight in 2 tile range hence popularity of hybrids

I do not recall ever playing when that was not a feature and I was playing on early access so that might have been very early in early access when there was still neutral towns and the likes.

In any case im surprised to see this popping now.

[Primitive Dog Owner]

He's right, you couldn't shoot through the front rank at one point, long, long ago.

As for sell swords, it seems like maybe they have a problem of needing good rolls to be worth it.

Arguably there are some backgrounds that can be good, even if they only have OK bases, stars, traits and level ups

And then there are many more backgrounds who have to get good-great rolls in order to be good.

A mediocre hunter can still be worth the money.

A mediocre hedge knight might not be worth the money, but he will still often be a decently powerful character.

But a mediocre sell sword is arguably just not very good at all, depending on the role you havein mind for him.

And yet, it's expensive to roll for a good one.

[Adam]

There's a mod that lets you see the stars when you try out a brother. (For balance, it makes trying out a brother more expensive.) I think it's an improvement, and definitely helps reduce the disappointment of dropping 7,000 on a hedge knight only to see he has only a couple stars in resolve and initiative...

[XheadshotX]

you also have to account the armour that comes with them. lets say a hedge knight costs 7k gold. he comes with a 5k greatsword a 200 armour helmet probally worth 1500-2k and i forgot the chest maybe a 150 chest usually worth 1500g. so basically your getting the guy for free and paying for the armour. but the daily wage isn't free and its a gamble to say spend 7500g on a gamble meanwhile you could of bought some 320 armour and a 250 helmet for same price. Or bought every farmer and brawler in every town to try to find a very good recruit.

a hedge knight is great b/c you can get away with no colossus and no fortified mine which you might have to take if you get a farmer with 25 resolve to get close to the 50 number most people want.

if you want value i would search for wildmen but they are very rare. also takes into account most hedge knights start at lvl 3 or 4 and come fully geared for the most part so how much does one level up mean to you?

if your squad has overall poor accuracy and getting a hedge knight with starting m attack at 65 and one melee defense star might be a good upgrade at say day 100 when you still might have mostly fodder for recruits. and say your average level of your squad is lvl 7 having a recruit start at lvl 4 he isn't that far behind the rest. and a visit to the trainer he could surpass the other guys in rarely short order or at least catch up.

so by being able to skip 1-2 perk points ie colossus fort mind etc lets that guy pick up 2 extra perks your other guys maybe wouldn't have access to. maybe can take headhunter or executioner in additon to the normal reach advantage berserk killing frenzy or maybe he has iron lungs and can forgo the recover perk. thus giving me maybe as many as 3 extra perks.

[XheadshotX]

maybe when your squad by day 200 is in all 300/320 gear but on day 100 or 70 that armour might be a good upgrade. if your best chest armour at that time is 115 and helmet is 140.

personally i would want to get a full team to lvl 11 and geared in at least 250/210 gear before thinking of hedge knights. every 5k gold could gear a new front line member where as 7500 for hedge knights might or might not be good. and if he dies first battle that 7500g investment really hurts.

then slowly add in premium members once i have a team in place to babysit that hero.

[Spectre7]

I use sellswords for my back line which are archers that switch to long axes. They have good melee and range stats comparitivley to others.

[UnluckyNoob]

Originally posted by Adam:

Sellsword: 55 HP, 95 Fat, 40 Res, 105 Init, 63.5 MA, 48 RA, 9 MD, 9 RD, 35 Wage
Hedge knight: 67.5 HP, 107.5 Fat, 41.5 Res, 94.5 Init, 62.5 MA, 37 RA, 8 MD, 2.5 RD, 35 Wage
Raider: 55 HP, 96 Fat, 33.5 Res, 105 Init, 63 MA, 39.5 RA, 8 MD, 8 RD, 28 Wage

So sellswords have better stats than raiders and are much cheaper to hire than hedge knights. Which means these 3 are pretty balanced.

And the only point in hiring anyone except wildmans and hunters is the lack of wildmans. So in mid game you have to hire inferior backgrounds like three above.

[Wyrtt]

Originally posted by bouchard_670:

Originally posted by Wyrtt:

No you could not, You would fire directly in the back of your brother, Before you had to switch for backrow weaponry to fight in 2 tile range hence popularity of hybrids

I do not recall ever playing when that was not a feature and I was playing on early access so that might have been very early in early access when there was still neutral towns and the likes.

In any case im surprised to see this popping now.

Nope. It was something like 0.8 at lowest. Archery change came very late in development.

[Mr.M]

"The most expensive" are you nuts?

Hedge Knights are the most expensive background - higher daily wages dont automatically make the most expensive...

[Adam]

Interestingly, the hiring cost of a hedge knight is only 100. The rest comes from equipment. :-P