Is Overwhelm perk broken?

[Diveyoc]

I took this perk on my thrower since he's often throwing at 2 tile range at the enemies directly in front of my frontline, but I rarely ever see the overwhelm status being applied.

Am I missing something here. It says it gets applied hit or miss. Is there a resistance to it?

[Decado]

Doesn't work if your go after the enemy in the turn order.

[Whatever100500]

It only applies if you go first, due to naturally higher Ini (or Adrenaline, but these 2 perks combine badly due to heavy fat use of Adrenaline).
Note that waiting reduces your Ini by 25% for next turn (only for who goes first purpose, Dodge is not affected).

A build that wants to use Overwhelm semi consistently needs to have decent Ini. Though you don't really need to take it every level either. Trying to out-Ini goblins is just not worth it.

[Diveyoc]

Ah, dang it. I read that but it didn't register. I understand.

Seems like a high initiative, nimble, overwhelm team could be good. I went up against another mercenary company recently who all seemed to have overwhelm. They knocked down my attack capacity pretty good.

[Whatever100500]

Originally posted by Diveyoc:

Seems like a high initiative, nimble, overwhelm team could be good. I went up against another mercenary company recently who all seemed to have overwhelm. They knocked down my attack capacity pretty good.

Well, not whole company. Not every build and recruit is compatible with Overwhelm.
- Anything forged is out due to too much Fat/Ini penalty from armor.
- It's costs fewer level-ups on recruits who already start with ~110 Ini and Ini talent.
- best combined with Archers, Polearm QH backline and overwhelm-dodge-relentless nimble tanks (last one is fallback build for crappy recruits, not something to strive for. Anyone without Paranoid or Fat traits can do fine in it).

[suejak]

There is a guy on Discord who loves Overwhelm and has done a company almost entirely of Overwhelm guys. Paradoxically, he doesn't like Dudge.

Hit up Sarissofoi on Discord if you're curious!

I don't really like initiative builds on archers. It's worth trying, but archers tend to be one of the most fatigue-intensive builds for me, which inherently has anti-synergy with anything initiative-related. (Use of Relentless for this purpose, in combination with maybe low-fatigue ranged weapons, is still an area in need of exploration.)

Also, never trust anyone who tells you something isn't "viable," especially if they seem to painting with a very broad brush. I actually have trouble losing this game on Expert / Expert / Low / Ironman, so TBH most things are good if you go about them intelligently. (Note that this isn't as much of a brag as it seems -- I think most players tend to give up rather than really lose. If you play smart, you'll clear the crises with almost anything.)

[Draba]

Originally posted by suejak:

I don't really like initiative builds on archers. It's worth trying, but archers tend to be one of the most fatigue-intensive builds for me, which inherently has anti-synergy with anything initiative-related. (Use of Relentless for this purpose, in combination with maybe low-fatigue ranged weapons, is still an area in need of exploration.)

I was never a fan of overwhelm, but now with -FAT bows and relentless I can see it being decent on archers. Main selling point there is that you can easily apply it anywhere and also has something like AoE on projectiles. Archers in general are are a bit less useful with barbarian faction and the crossbow change, nowadays I mostly get executioner on them instead.

Otherwise nimble melee dudes, probably best against schrat/unhold/maybe chosen.

Originally posted by suejak:

Also, never trust anyone who tells you something isn't "viable," especially if they seem to painting with a very broad brush. I actually have trouble losing this game on Expert / Expert / Low / Ironman, so TBH most things are good if you go about them intelligently. (Note that this isn't as much of a brag as it seems -- I think most players tend to give up rather than really lose. If you play smart, you'll clear the crises with almost anything.)

Wait, you came around to the idea that BB campaign is actually hard to completely lose?
That's nice to see :)

[suejak]

Well, if you go back and read the thread you're referring to, I explicitly said it's hard to literally lose a campaign! You might learn a thing or two if you actually read the posts you're responding to, Draba

I'm not saying BB isn't a hard game -- that would be a silly thing to say. What I'm saying is there's a big margin for success that belies the claim that "you must optimize to succeed, only 2 builds are viable." You can have fun, experiment, and still consistently succeed, even when doing the hardest content, without killing yourself looking for "perfect" bros.

And this is on ironman, no less. It's even more true if you don't play ironman.

[Draba]

Originally posted by suejak:

Well, if you go back and read the thread you're referring to, I explicitly said it's hard to literally lose a campaign! You might learn a thing or two if you actually read the posts you're responding to, Draba
...
And this is on ironman, no less. It's even more true if you don't play ironman.

Not referring to any thread specifically, just got a bingo again.

Seriously: go ahead and count how many of your posts bring up the EELI part like it's something significant, not just annoying.
Would make a really dangerous drinking game :)

[Nurgus]

EELItism... :P?