Farmhands can be stronger than Hedge Knights: Event-driven leveling strategy

[Lampros]

A few days ago, I mentioned that one can use stat Events to level Farmhands to the point where they can become stronger than Hedge Knights rather quickly. Thereafter some folks who are clueless claimed that it is not viable, because it would take "1000 days" at least for Farmhands and Hedge Knights to achieve statistical parity. Others accused me of "cheating" to get Farmhands stats comparable to Hedge Knights.

So I wanted to show what you can achieve in just even 300 days, and the mechanics of the strategy.

First, on day 300, here is my best (or luckiest - since it's purely Event RNG-driven) Farmhand:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1765559238

Again, this is just after 300 days - NOT 1000 days. 300 days is not much if you play a longer playthrough. And you will likely need have other "placeholders" still around by then (e.g. a Caravan Hand placeholder for the Caravan storage Event, a Bowyer placeholder for the Masterwork Bow Event, etc.) So it's not like the Farmhands are slowing your progress.

And already the Farmhand has gained 20 total stat points from 8 separate Events.

Second, now the mechanics:

You are chaining three separate set of stat-boosting Events: Brawler Teaches (one-time Event for the Brawler), Farmer Old Tricks (repeatable with 100 day cooldown), and Combat Drill (repeatable with 60 day cooldown). You can skip Brawler Teaches, if you don't want to micro-manage too much, since you need to replace the Brawler each time he teaches.

Now, given that Hedge Knights on average have 15 more stat points than Farmhands ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k_izGk9h9r3OMlOmnmiOwrmK7EmHu2eni08JpULf-os/edit#gid=604473640 ); and on average - at least in my experience - it takes about 350-400 days for the Farmhands to gain 15 points. That's not "not viable" - as some folks claim. The folks who play long campaigns typically play over 750 days - and some over 1000 days.

Is this over-powered? Perhaps for non-Lone Wolf campaigns, because you have 20 or more slots. But this is not easy on Lone Wolf. As you can see in the screenshot, I've had 4-5 characters in reserve - which means at most I can only have 7-8 characters in combat at most. (Combat Drill won't trigger unless you have 3 or more level 2 or lower characters.) And I find myself hitting "retreat" more than ever for obvious reasons with such a limited manpower. Moreover, I am trying to get other Events, too - e.g. Masterwork Bow and the Caravan slot expansion. So I always have 2-3 sub-optimal characters among the 7-8 in combat.

Anyways, I just wanted to show how the power of this strategy in a long campaign. Once again, as you can see, +20 stat points in 300 days. I'd probably keep this character in reserve 200 more, since I am still waiting on other Events (e.g. Masterwork Bow) after 300 days.

Edit: Since people seem to have been misled a bit, the focus of this strategy is more Combat Drill than the Farmhand-specific Event. That is, while Farmhands are best with this strategy, you do not necessarily need Farmhands. I also use Lumberjacks - who also have the capacity to achieve high Fatigue (Fatigue is the most important stat for me, because of my play-style).

[Lampros]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Its hilarious but as pointed out not too effective.

Only really doable will only 2 farmhands max and the time it takes till they reach meaningful stats is just too long.

Why is it really "only doable" with 2 Farmhands? If RNG is with you - and you find acceptable recruits in a short time - then there is no theoretical limit. For instance, I probably will have 4 Farmhands far stronger than Hedge Knights on day 500.

Yes, that's a long game, but some folks do play extremely long games. I've seen Imz Frozen recruiting a new batch of characters at day 900 or so! ;)

So there are folks who play even longer games than me.

Anyways, the point was not to say that this is the optimal way to play for everyone. I wanted primarily disprove other folks who claimed (in another thread) that it takes 1000 days for a Farmhand to be on par with a Hedge Knight - or others who outright said that it can only be done via cheats. You can do it in 300 days - and legitimately.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

You would be better off finding good Apprentices too. Minimum stat gain from Hegde Knight for them is 8 (its one time but A LOT better than farmer event) and they can also gain combat drill and Brawler Teachings.

No, I've tried - believe me! ;)

The main problem with Apprentices is that they have a whopping -25 stat point deficit relative to Farmhands. You basically cannot find any Apprentice good enough to use:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k_izGk9h9r3OMlOmnmiOwrmK7EmHu2eni08JpULf-os/edit#gid=604473640

[Mr.M]

Eventually you will find the apprentice with same stars as the farmhand in the pic tho

[Lampros]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Eventually you will find the apprentice with same stars as the farmhand in the pic tho

No, you cannot. I've played 1800 hours or so of this game, and I've never found one.

[Mr.M]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Eventually you will find the apprentice with same stars as the farmhand in the pic tho

No, you cannot. I've played 1800 hours or so of this game, and I've never found one.

Yes you can...

I already had such an apprentice once...

[Lampros]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Originally posted by Lampros:

No, you cannot. I've played 1800 hours or so of this game, and I've never found one.

Yes you can...

I already had such an apprentice once...

https://battlebrothers.fandom.com/wiki/Character_Backgrounds#Affiliations

From the database itself.

If you roll max in every stat - literally every stat - you'd get 419 stat points on an Apprentice. That's worse than an average Hedge Knight.

And even if such a character is possible, it's not something you can count on every game - much less multiple characters every game.

By the way, I've never ever seem a character roll max on every stat for the Background.

[Mr.M]

Farmhand only gets +10 max health and +20 max fat. Hedge Knight training gives a minimum of 8, a maximum of 14.

Meanining even with a minimum roll in that event the Apprentice will only have a bit less health and fat as a farmhand. Combine it with 2 stars in ms, md and fat, the brawler teaching and 1-3 combat drills and he will also easily be better than a hedge knight.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Farmhand only gets +10 max health and +20 max fat. Hedge Knight training gives a minimum of 8, a maximum of 14.

Meanining even with a minimum roll in that event the Apprentice will only have a bit less health and fat as a farmhand. Combine it with 2 stars in ms, md and fat, the brawler teaching and 1-3 combat drills and he will also easily be better than a hedge knight.

And Apprentices get no stat bonuses - which means that average Apprentices have 30 less stat points than average Farmhands. So your original point that my strategy would be "better off" with Apprentices makes no sense.

The point isn't whether a chain-Event trained Apprentice is better than a Hedge Knight. I've never contested that. Rather, the issue is whether a chain-Event trained Apprentice is better than a chain-Event trained Farmhand - which is your contention. And this argument is absurd, given the initial stat deficit (which, according to the latest database mining, is even greater than I initially realized).

-30 stat points. And even a max roll of Hedge Knight training, according to you, cannot make up half that deficit.

[Mr.M]

Farmhands bonus is from 22-30, with -2/-3 in resolve. Meaning on average its only 23-24.

My initial post was "better off using Apprentices TOO"...

Apprentices cost almost nothing, cycling through everyone you find is barely a hassle...

Similarily you should use flagellants too since they get tons of events for health, ms and even +1 fat. Only problem with them would be their events could lower the chance for combat drills and other events.

[Hurricane]

But money is no issue... now i want a raider or hedge with them stars yeah boi

[Lampros]

Originally posted by MrMonokel2000:

Farmhands bonus is from 22-30, with -2/-3 in resolve. Meaning on average its only 23-24.

My initial post was "better off using Apprentices TOO"...

Apprentices cost almost nothing, cycling through everyone you find is barely a hassle...

Similarily you should use flaggelants since they get tons of events for health, ms and even +1 fat. Only problem with them would be they interfere with other events.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

But since I min-max to the nth degree, at least for me Apprentices can never make the cut. For instance, even Fatigue-wise, I'd want to a bare minimum of 150 Fatigue by level 11, since I spam Indomitable. And Apprentices do not have enough Fatigue to do this without Strong and three stars.

In fact, I could care less about the Farmhand-specific Event. It's really because of the base Farmhand Fatigue that I use them in bulk. Farmhands and Lumberjacks are the only lowborn Backgrounds that work for me Fatigue-wise.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Hurricane:

But money is no issue... now i want a raider or hedge with them stars yeah boi

I min-max my characters, and I am not good with the economy to run all-Hedge Knight/Sellsword team. This is a way for me to approximate that without paying the same upkeep.

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by Hurricane:

But money is no issue... now i want a raider or hedge with them stars yeah boi

I min-max my characters, and I am not good with the economy to run all-Hedge Knight/Sellsword team. This is a way for me to approximate that without paying the same upkeep.

Ofc you are you can literally take anyquest late game for easy upkeep you can never run out of cash woth 300/300 bros just avoid barbs and farm camps and orcs its unlimited money. Waiting all this time for a farmer to get op is silly. That farmer in the ss would be godly with no events. I mean you cant get much better than that.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Hurricane:

Waiting all this time for a farmer to get op is silly. That farmer in the ss would be godly with no events. I mean you cant get much better than that.

I guess we have a different conception of "godly." For me, "godly" is at least top 10-20 percent Hedge Knight/Sellsword stats, and no Farmhand - or any cheaper Backgrounds - can achieve that without Event-driven leveling.

[Locklave]

Might I suggest a thread title change?

Farmhands stronger than Hedge Knights: Event-driven leveling strategy

Should be

Farmhands can be stronger than Hedge Knights: Event-driven leveling strategy

The title is slightly misleading, although correct overall based on the details presented.