Veteran too easy, Expert too hard

[Dust Runner]

I like strategy games a lot. In battle brothers and xcom, the hardest difficulty is always my breaking point. I ironman everything, and halfway through the toughest part of each game, one or two of my best people die. I then lose momentum without that powerhouse, and everything goes downhill. Veteran I end up thinking not a lot and feeling like I need more difficulty out of the experience.

Is expert a mode you have to cheese? I recently learned about kiting enemies and nets and ♥♥♥♥ being useful but my first two applications of knowledge and reading guides ended with day 70 not having what I needed and knowing I would be fighting a losing battle.

Any tips? Embrace cheese? Learn nuances through veteran repeat?

Also total sidenote what the ♥♥♥♥ do you do on expert mode when you have brigands defending in formation and just throwing missiles at you and getting their lucky hits? Everytime I encounter brigands using defensive formations and artillery firing me I get DESTROYED. (or just retreat.)

[Drathnar1]

There's no I WIN button or strategy but a good map can offer a faster/easier start. Have a look at the map seeds pinned thread and Abel's thread as well.

On having enemies turtle and pummel you with ranged attacks, that is indeed a tricky situation.
Ways to deal with it include:
1)having more ranged attackers and outshooting them. Front row with kite shields, shieldwalling if necessary. Anticipation is a nice bonus if you can afford it in builds. Steel Brow helps eliminate unlucky crits. Generally you want good armor and decent survivability with this approach and archers having both Bow mastery and Bullseye to better target their marksmen.

2)fight at Night (Vision-2, Ranged Skill and Defense -30%). This helps if you have less ranged than the enemy and allows you to approach closer before getting shot at. Here you want to close to melee distance as fast as possible and strike hard. A small group of 2-handers can smash their backline really hard if given the space. QuickHands to switch between a kite shield and a 2-hander fast. Adrenaline is nice to have to gain the first strike and to flank and tie up theIr archers in melee. Pathfinder can be helpful on rougher terrain.

3)feign retreat. Retreat to a more advantageous position/terrain (height advantage). Use bushes if available to hide. Angle your approach so that you're focussing one end of their formation. This will sometimes cause them to break formation and rush forward.

Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. Not all battle are winnable without casualties.

[anaphylactic god]

at expert difficulty its much more important to be succesful economicaly.
if you can afford heavy armor (300+ points) at day 35-40 - you are doing fine on expert

[Rude$t]

Originally posted by anaphylactic god:

at expert difficulty its much more important to be succesful economicaly.
if you can afford heavy armor (300+ points) at day 35-40 - you are doing fine on expert

+1.

Econonmy Tips:

The most important thing in expert is economy. Playing on a seed you're familiar with that has good trade routes is helpful, if somewhat cheesy. Here are a few tips:

Buy tools in citadels or small towns with workshops for really cheap. Try to consistantly spend less than 250 for tools, never spend more. The cheaper the better.

Likewise for food, plan ahead, buy food where it's cheap.

Try not to repair early game armor if you have spare sets in your inventory, which you can salvage from bandits. Only repair Padded Leather and above, when possible.

Build relations with a large city to sell to (and try to sell in bulk when it gets raided) and a small village with an armorer to buy gear from.

Survive the early off of damaged shop gear and salvaged bandit thug/raider gear. The single most valuble weapon early game is the reinforced flail, followed up by Raider tier flail. With those you'll be swimming in spare armor. If you're on the ball about smashing heads you'll even have spare armor you can use instead of using tools on repairs.

If you find a citadel or forest village with a tanner, check them out. A couple of sets of Padded Leather for 100ish crowns is the most cost effecient armor you can buy. Don't purchase more than a couple, since you'll be able to salvage it from raiders.

Expand your roster slowly, reinvest most of your early funds in trade goods. Finding a good route to pick up missions, hunt bandits, and deliver goods to a large city is great. If you can find a good circuit on your map you're golden.

I like to start slowly buying Reinforced Hauberks when my economy gets off the ground for my front row. From there, it's up to your needs. Prioritze armor over recruits--hire cheap recruits until you have enough gear to keep more valuble recruits alive or you likely won't get a return investment on them.

Early Recruits:

Farmers, Tavern Brawlers, Wildmen. Your backbone. These guys are bulky and come with lots of fatigue and HP. Even if they don't roll ideal stats they'll still make decent meatwalls/fodder. If a farmer comes with a cheap crumy wooden flail? Grab him. Put that flail on your companion with the highest melee attack, and use it to bash Hoggart's brains in and take his armor.

A single Butcher is pretty cost effective on your first recruiting run. He comes with an Apron that you can give your Crossbowman, which is good enough for the first fight--with good positioning he won't be in melee and that apron will soak a couple of lucky hits from Hoggart's archer. The Cleaver can suffice for a weapon for one of the starting companions, you'll likely want to give the butcher himself a spear. Butcher's come with +5 resolve and + melee. So that makes them good candidates for early game Bannermen, given they roll with the right stats. If not, shield wall fodder.

I like to pick up a Fisher or a Ratcatcher (prefurably a Fisher) for their net. I use it during the Hoggart fight to neutralize him while I deal with his crew.

Likewise, a Houndmaster is pretty cheap (usually 250ish) but comes with gear early game armor (padded surcoat) most of the time. Better value than a Butcher.

A Witchhunter at 750 crowns is a good first buy too. You get a padded surcoat, a light crossbow, bolts, a knife, and a 40/40 hat. That second crossbow is a force multiplyer! For his price, he's a great value. An above average recruit that is great for a multitude of roles--Archer, Polearm/Ranged Hybrid, Shield Brother (resistance to fear), or Bannerman/Sarge. He is especially affordable if you start in a village with trade goods.

A cheap militiaman (400ish or less) is also a pretty good buy.

Other than that, all recruits have thier uses and fit into your economy somewhere, barring Peddlars and Miners which typically are not very cost effective. Daytalors, Masons, Apprentcies, Fisherman, and Vagabonds are all pretty-arlight if you can't get your hands on enough Farmhands etc..

Beggars, Cripples, and Gravediggers are good Fodder for their price. I'd only pick them up after you get a core group you want to keep alive. Put them in high mortality positions like the front flanks.

Early Builds:

Farmhands get +10/10 to fatigue and HP. This enourmous bonus to two valueble stats means that sometimes you'll take them into the late game. Hell, through a combination of veteran levels, traits, and talents some lowborn classes will make it all the way through--but don't count on most to.

In the begining of the game I fill my ranks with what I call a "Mugger" build. Typical mercenary rabble that fall through the cracks, out to make a quick buck, not partiuclarly talented but we try to polish them as best we can.

The build focuses on the trifecta of Fast Adaptation/tGifted/Backstabber. Consistant hitting wins fights in the early game--missing and having to deal with the enemy's retaliation is what kills you. With Gifted give them Melee Attack, Melee Defense, and use the last roll to patch up a weakness. If they have no particular weakness, use it to pad their Fatigue or increase resolve. (you're aiming for about 50 with everyone.) This makes even your crap recruits able to hit. If they die? Who cares. If they live? Give them Mace Mastery to make up for their lack of defensive stats. Backstabber + Fast Adaptation = Consistant Stuns along with mace mastery, meanig they can protect themsleves and others. Another good perk to give them is rotate, so they can swap places with someone else.

I don't take gifted on people I want to keep, nor do I take survival perks on fodder/muggers.

For the companions you have options--

Shieldbro can make an above average Mugger, a mediocore but sevicable bannerman to eventually become a reservist or be replaced, or a Shieldbrother that levels Melee Defense every single level up, and a combination of Fatigue/Resolve/Health depending on rolls and ignores melee in favor of spamming taunt and shieldwall to tie up enemies and break their formation.

AxeBro will be your first two hander. Or, you could opt to make him a pretty good Flankguard/Spearmaster. Spear/hammer or Spear/Mace hybrid. High Melee Attack, Defense, and Resolve are great on such a build since you want spear wall to hit often, and you want to pass resolve checks with the volume of enemies coming into your zone of control, so his stat spread works really well for either role. I'd only make him a two-hander if his traits allow for it (Sure Footed, Iron Lungs, Strong, etc.) I like to give him Adrenaline and put him on the back line with my strongest polearm or long axe and have him do burst damage. Around the time he gets batlte forged you can transition him to the frontline and give him a proper two-hander.

Crossbrow can make a great ranged character due to Vet levels, traits, and stats. If he has Iron Lungs, Strong, etc.. Make him an Archer. Not traits or negative traits? Make him a crossbowman. If he is somewhere in the middle, make him a Crossbow/Throw hybrid. Either way, Start with Student(Crippling Strikes if Crossbowman) /Steel Brow/Anticipation for his defensive perks. If you go the Archer route, stack Dodge/Nimble/Overwhelm too along with some initiative. If not, ignore initiative and go battleforged and heavier armor instead.

Hoggart Fight/Early Armor Salvaging:

Due to surround bonuses, you want to go for a big frontline and a small backline. Get a net. (buy a Fisher or Ratcatcher) get two pitchforks, 4 shields total, 4 weapons, whatever cheap armor and helmets you can afford, and attack him at night to deny him his archer. Equip your archer with a polearm (if you don't have the DLC helmet).

Attack Hoggart at night makes his crew very aggresive, you start outside theri line of sight so they use their first turn moving very close to you. You can play this two ways--shield wall, and wait---or jump right at them. Isolate a guy who is alone, use surround bonuses to kill him, and snowball the fight in your favor.

Equip the net to one of your polearm guys. Put the polearm in his bag/inventory, pull it out after you net Hoggart. Kill his crew, surround him, and either bash his head in with a flail (reinforced or wooden) or dagger him down. You'll have a much easier time with flails than daggers. Knives and daggers do have their places though when salvaging gear. Give them to all your guys as you loot them from enemies.

Also, keep those wooden sticks! You can use these to stun enemies without wrecking their gear. So a Dagger/Stick in everyone's pocket on the front line makes farming armor a safer process.

[Dust Runner]

Originally posted by anaphylactic god:

at expert difficulty its much more important to be succesful economicaly.
if you can afford heavy armor (300+ points) at day 35-40 - you are doing fine on expert

Wow that's double what I usually have the capacity for! Are you actually joking? I must need to read a book on Bill Gates life to get that good of armor that early.

Originally posted by Rude$t:

Originally posted by anaphylactic god:

at expert difficulty its much more important to be succesful economicaly.
if you can afford heavy armor (300+ points) at day 35-40 - you are doing fine on expert

Thanks for all the helpful tips! I read some guides and go afraid to take gifted at all because of them. The attention to early game is the most helpful thing. Getting your feet off the ground seems quite the most difficult in popular strategy games.

[jpinard]

Wow great advice!

[Trappist]

Originally posted by anaphylactic god:

at expert difficulty its much more important to be succesful economicaly.
if you can afford heavy armor (300+ points) at day 35-40 - you are doing fine on expert

Is that afford one piece of heavy armour by day 40 or have you entire front line deceked out with heavy chest and head?

I haven't played expert level at all, but on veteran, playing genuine iron man i find it very hard to make the step up from raider to medium / heavy. Im on day 40 in my current run and i just managed to get 2 x 210 chests. I also just lost my best man cos i stupidly accepted a caravan mission but thats another story.

[nightworg]

Originally posted by Trappist:

Originally posted by anaphylactic god:

at expert difficulty its much more important to be succesful economicaly.
if you can afford heavy armor (300+ points) at day 35-40 - you are doing fine on expert

Is that afford one piece of heavy armour by day 40 or have you entire front line deceked out with heavy chest and head?

I haven't played expert level at all, but on veteran, playing genuine iron man i find it very hard to make the step up from raider to medium / heavy. Im on day 40 in my current run and i just managed to get 2 x 210 chests. I also just lost my best man cos i stupidly accepted a caravan mission but thats another story.

I must be very bad money wise because I don't usual have that great armor at day 40. I usual start out with a couple of 150 armors.

[anaphylactic god]

Originally posted by Trappist:

Originally posted by anaphylactic god:

at expert difficulty its much more important to be succesful economicaly.
if you can afford heavy armor (300+ points) at day 35-40 - you are doing fine on expert

Is that afford one piece of heavy armour by day 40 or have you entire front line deceked out with heavy chest and head?

I haven't played expert level at all, but on veteran, playing genuine iron man i find it very hard to make the step up from raider to medium / heavy. Im on day 40 in my current run and i just managed to get 2 x 210 chests. I also just lost my best man cos i stupidly accepted a caravan mission but thats another story.

i'm always aiming to purchase atleast one heavy bodyarmor at day 30 on expert.
there are numerous ways to get money. Aside from killing things and trade items some caravan events can give you huge boosts- for example noble prisoner or crate full of gems will ruin your reputation but any of those are easily 3k gold, which is enough to buy lamenar armor right away.
Quest with funeral can fetch you greatsword which is also huge boost to your cause.
Taking quests against ancient undead before day 10 can also be beneficial. Even covens will be filled with auxilaries and you can fetch some gold items for 500-1000 gold per piece.

[Trappist]

Originally posted by anaphylactic god:

Originally posted by Trappist:

Is that afford one piece of heavy armour by day 40 or have you entire front line deceked out with heavy chest and head?

I haven't played expert level at all, but on veteran, playing genuine iron man i find it very hard to make the step up from raider to medium / heavy. Im on day 40 in my current run and i just managed to get 2 x 210 chests. I also just lost my best man cos i stupidly accepted a caravan mission but thats another story.

i'm always aiming to purchase atleast one heavy bodyarmor at day 30 on expert.
there are numerous ways to get money. Aside from killing things and trade items some caravan events can give you huge boosts- for example noble prisoner or crate full of gems will ruin your reputation but any of those are easily 3k gold, which is enough to buy lamenar armor right away.
Quest with funeral can fetch you greatsword which is also huge boost to your cause.
Taking quests against ancient undead before day 10 can also be beneficial. Even covens will be filled with auxilaries and you can fetch some gold items for 500-1000 gold per piece.

Sounds good, but there is so much that can go wrong on those caravan missions. Is it true Ironman you are playing on Expert or do you use some reloads to get favourable utcomes on some recruitment or battles? No criticism of how you play either way just need to understand for a true comparison.

[Piggy]

That was a cool explanation above there! I myself have a tough time starting a new game but sometimes you just get a good start. I myself finally got my best save, and that start happend by a mistake of buying a retired soldier for all the money I had. The map also really makes difference. If it's all like swamp it's meh, but if you like to adapt anyway it's possible. Just by changing your skills so it's more of a challenge. New is always fun.

[anaphylactic god]

Originally posted by Trappist:

Sounds good, but there is so much that can go wrong on those caravan missions. Is it true Ironman you are playing on Expert or do you use some reloads to get favourable utcomes on some recruitment or battles? No criticism of how you play either way just need to understand for a true comparison.

i mean real iron man. Well, its not like i nailed it on the first try. I remember spending quite some time trying to have good start on ironman - good map, cool traits on starting brothers, salvaging hoggard armor and sword - my best run was 86 days, i took 2 skull contract on some orks and it turned to be 3 berserkers and 6 warriors and they wiped me.
Then i saw some enlightening thread on steam hub and thought "hey, i can do that too"
thread itself, its pretty old tho, so no lindwyrms
http://steamcommunity.com/app/365360/discussions/0/1354868867730143340/

i dont encourage you to follow it step by step, its just so you have a general idea

[千仞万渊]

Originally posted by anaphylactic god:

Originally posted by Trappist:

Sounds good, but there is so much that can go wrong on those caravan missions. Is it true Ironman you are playing on Expert or do you use some reloads to get favourable utcomes on some recruitment or battles? No criticism of how you play either way just need to understand for a true comparison.

i mean real iron man. Well, its not like i nailed it on the first try. I remember spending quite some time trying to have good start on ironman - good map, cool traits on starting brothers, salvaging hoggard armor and sword - my best run was 86 days, i took 2 skull contract on some orks and it turned to be 3 berserkers and 6 warriors and they wiped me.
Then i saw some enlightening thread on steam hub and thought "hey, i can do that too"
thread itself, its pretty old tho, so no lindwyrms
http://steamcommunity.com/app/365360/discussions/0/1354868867730143340/

i dont encourage you to follow it step by step, its just so you have a general idea

Great thx for your appreciation, although I think these stuff are kind of outdated. Its content is still alright by now, but now ambition and conyract kind is much more important than before.