Stuck in the post-raider stage

[Stal Hamarr]

Hello, I came back on Battle Brothers after playing it at various pre-release stages.
So I have decent knowledge of the game, but rarely played it into the mid and late game (I only completed the greenskin invasion once). Playing veteran/ironman.

I'm not having particular problems in the early game and I usually have my frontline in raider gear around day 20-25.
But at that point everything sort of remains the same.
On day 51, I still have everyone in raider gear. It's the "upper" class of raider gear (armor 110-115 and helmets 130-140), but it feels like a very marginal upgrade from day 26 to day 50.

Actually, the most significant upgrades in the last 30 days are a billhook and a heavy crossbow I got from a fight with a small noble unit looking for my killer on the run.

At this point, I'm kind of stuck. If I keep doing easy contracts, it's just enough to pay the men and buy food. I can tackle more difficult fights (and win), but then the repair tools eat all the income.

What's the usual strategy after the initial stage and before the first crisis?
Do I have to start hunting for bandit leaders?
Named items in the wilderness? Or do people just save money and buy from the shops?

[Drathnar1]

Originally posted by Shizu:

Hello, I came back on Battle Brothers after playing it at various pre-release stages.

At this point, I'm kind of stuck. If I keep doing easy contracts, it's just enough to pay the men and buy food. I can tackle more difficult fights (and win), but then the repair tools eat all the income.

Gear generally sells for less these days compared to say build 0.6 about a year ago, yes. There are a few ways to improve income generation though.

Contract payouts are increased by Renown so getting Ambitions done fast is not a bad idea.

Selling prices for general gear are improved by better Relations with the settlement in question so it helps to have good Relations with a settlement that has a City Hall by doing repeated contracts for them.
Repairing weapons and armor can net you a larger profit if your expenditure on tools is less than the gain from repairs. As price modifiers are usually no higher than 20% (this is at a City Hall with a port at Allied status) these days (unless you get favorable settlement status modifiers like Ambushed Trade Routes or Safe Roads), you will want to only repair an item if its worth/durability > 3.33 (assuming you're buying tools at about 200G).

If you prefer not to waste time calculating, as a rule of thumb:
Tier2 and above weapons are all worth repairing. For tier1, only repair shortsword, militia spear, hatchet, pitchfork.
Armor is generally not really worth repairing till Worn Mail Shirt (Patched Mail gives small returns, I mostly don't bother) and Nasal Helm with Rusty Mail. Repairing Nasal Helm basically just barely breaks even (or even a small loss in some cases).

Selling trade goods is another way to increase income. I don't go out of my way to get them though, usually just pick up whatever is convenient when I'm doing quests in that settlement or when passing through them during transport cargo/escort caravan.

Originally posted by Shizu:

What's the usual strategy after the initial stage and before the first crisis?
Do I have to start hunting for bandit leaders?
Named items in the wilderness? Or do people just save money and buy from the shops?

Bandit Leaders, Hedge Knights do come with decent armor and weapons and if you manage to take down the other enemy units fast, you can surround and use daggers and flails on them to have a better chance at getting their gear.
Fallen Heroes have heavy armor as well and sometimes even a good weapon/shield but these armor pieces are usually not Fatigue efficient.

Some players here have reported good gains on destroying lairs in the wilderness. I do it too once in a while but getting named items from them is a bit of a toss up. Also named items are not necessarily significantly better than their regular versions, as sometimes they just upgrade a stat that has little impact on battle.

Completing the ambition to get a Noble House to Allied Relations gets you a 'Decorated Full Helm' and 'Heraldic Hauberk' (two really good armor pieces) with two Heater Shields.

Of course once you have enough gold, you can just buy the armor and weapons you want from shops.

[gazomierz]

First thing I have to say is don't worry about it. Game scales to how well you're doing, so you can take it slower and still do fine. You don't have to power rush. It's quite normal to reach 1st crisis with mostly raider gear. It's usually after crisis is done you start to snowball. Generally first crisis is what makes or brakes the run. Ofc there is a way around it, picking noble war and letting it play itself out, but that's kinda cheating.

Focus on building your mains and reserves. Equip all of them with raider gear. Lvl them up enough for them to be able to fill their role/build properly. Stuff like that. Prepare for when ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan.

Accumulate cash and get some better gear for your best/most important warriors. It's not unusual to obtain couple of first 200+ armour sets from shops. I'd say it's how it usually works.

Overall I don't think there's anything wrong with your progression rate. From what you descibed.



If you wish to progress faster tho, there's couple of things you could try.

Unlock noble contracts asap. They usually pay much better in comparison to regular ones of similar threat lvl.

Tackle more challenging contracts. It seems to me that you're playing super safe. Focusing on low risk low pay contracts is enough to sustain your party and still progress (as mercs are stil getting xps and you're still hoarding loot/cash) but you stand low chance of obtaining really good stuff. Ofc going for high risk contracts can backfire, so you have to decide what you prefer. I'm under impression that majority of playerbase tends to go the safe route. Only couple of most hc players go for 3 skulls and lairs from day 10.

Lairs. When you have your mains kitted out and started working on your reserves is a good time for first lairs tour. You won't be getting much famed items by this stage, but treasures found should allow you to go on a shopping spree. Additionaly you can obtain some decent gear from fallen heroes, occasional brigand leaders and such.

Try to get into lot of fights. Even if they're easy pickigns it's still some exp and cash to farm. It will accumulate. You should aim for 2fights/day on average when going safe route. If you're going for more risky stuff (contracts/lairs) it's ok to limit yourself to 1-1,5 fight/day.



As to famed items. It's quite rare to get them as loot outside of huge crisis fights, specific noble packs and hunting big camps. Accumulate cash and get them from shops if you want some early on.

[Estieukua]

I usually experience that same thing of cruising along in worn/dented raider gear but then panicking that it suddenly seems so vulnerable when the first crisis kicks in.

But sometimes you chance to come across lots of small orc camps, inhabited by modest numbers of young/berserkers, not far from a cluster of settlements. Attacking them in raider gear can be risky, since those huge weapons can do devastation on a hit, but those weapons are also very profitable as loot.

On the other hand, if you enjoy going off exploring in the wilderness and ignoring routine and monotonous contracts, there's always the very real possibility that you won't find much and will allow lots of days to pass and consume lots of food without actually gaining much loot/XPts, only for the first crisis to sneak up on you ...

The one thing about famed items that don't offer much of an upgrade is that they will of course fetch a much better price as an item of loot (although I usually want to keep them anyway, just because they look cool). Same with the armour of fallen heroes and honour guards: it may be inefficient, but a golden honour guard helmet atop a dark-cloaked decayed hauberk looks so cool, and I want someone to wear them.

[Stal Hamarr]

Thanks for the input. I tried to apply your tips in game, especially about the repair/sale value of tier 2 items.
To upgrade my equipment, I tried to mix it up a bit and it seems to be working. I got a noble sword and a 200+ armor from a bandit leader and I'm also sitting on 10k cash from a mix of trading and the first real trip in the wilderness. I'll probably buy a couple pieces of armor.

Ambitions: yes, I always try to do them quickly, especially the one to get contracts from the noble houses.

Gazomiers, I think you are right. It's the first campaign after a long while, so I'm probably a bit too cautious. I also selected the noble war to get a more relaxed campaign. I will start a new one after the crisis. Day 80, so I'm almost there.
I'm not even remotely close to 2 fight per day and that's why I have a core of 9 character at level 6 and 7 (mostly 7) on day 80. In the next campaign I'll be more aggressive.

Laiserujjika, small orc locations are my absolute favorites. I start doing stuff like 5-6 youngs and 1-2 berserkers around day 20. But I'm having bad luck on this map. I'm still stuck at 3/4 orc locations for the ambition after 30ish days, because they are very rare on this map and the last few had obscenely strong groups inside.

[gazomierz]

Just don't be too aggressive. I often ruin my runs by challenging too strong enemies too soon. Because what can go wrong when I attack 20+ zeds/fallen and necro with 10 lvl2-5 guys during second week of the campaign? ;)

Generally I think it's good to play it safe, most of the time. But you should look for opportunities. Sometimes it's ok to risk a bit, if potential profits justify it. Depending on your gear/perk composition some enemies will be easier then others. Try to hunt the easier ones, preferably in camps. That's a good way to jumpstart the snowball machine.

[Estieukua]

I'm not sure if map seeds have any influence on the location and composition of enemy camps (possibly not), but some seeds I've played in the past seemed to be crawling with orc camps, whereas on others they were hidden away far to one of the extremes of the map, well beyond the other faction areas and hidden behind all sorts of awkward terrain. Naturally, when a seed was crawling with them, I'd got stuck on a non-orc ambition, whereas, when a seed turned out to not be crawling with them, I'd over-enthusiastically taken the ambition to raze orc camps, only to end up wasting days/weeks and lots of food trying to find the first one.

Seeds I played that were crawling with them:

- 1920e0 (there are several small pockets of mountains, as well as some much bigger pockets, to the north of the starting area, and there were lots of small orc camps in and around these)

- d6254 (there's a large area of plains to the west and south-west of the human settlement area, and there were more and more orc camps, of all shapes and sizes, the further I explored)

[Drathnar1]

Originally posted by Shizu:

To upgrade my equipment, I tried to mix it up a bit and it seems to be working.

Nice to know and glad to have helped a little!

Originally posted by Shizu:

Gazomiers, I think you are right. It's the first campaign after a long while, so I'm probably a bit too cautious.

I'm also pretty cautious these days. I think Ironman necessitates that. I'm also using mostly raider gear (due to a personal restriction) so my margin for error is not large.
It also took a while for me to adjust even though I played build 0.6 quite a bit. Changes in selling prices, adapting to settlement statuses, increase in upkeep (2G/level), slower caravans, changes in Cover/Scatter and ranged hit mechanics, etc... all had quite an impact. I mistimed selling opportunities, didn't farm armor much with flail/dagger, didn't have a good plan on how to complete ambitions, etc
My 1st campaign was pretty slow (by my reckoning). I stopped midway, started afresh, applied what I had learnt had changed and I believe did better the second time round.

Originally posted by Shizu:

I'm not even remotely close to 2 fight per day and that's why I have a core of 9 character at level 6 and 7 (mostly 7) on day 80. In the next campaign I'll be more aggressive.

I've seen a few players get up to L11 by mid 40s or earlier. That's really pushing pretty hard though by doing lots of wandering mobs and lairs (and you're not guaranteed to find them). I like to take my time, do mostly contracts and hit the safer stuff. I'm not in too much of a hurry so long as I think I can get most men to about L11 before the 1st crisis. Everyone's map, playstyle, general goals and tolerance for risk is a bit different, so your mileage may certainly vary.

These days I prefer not to take caravan contracts as they can take a lot of time to complete. If you don't get attacked, you don't gain any XP over that long period. Sometimes when you're attacked, it's by a force stronger than you'd like to fight and may take casualties if unlucky.

Originally posted by Shizu:

Laiserujjika, small orc locations are my absolute favorites.

Yea I much prefer Orcs to Goblins. If they hit they can do a good deal of damage but it is possible to get past without suffering much damage if at all if you have high enough Melee Defense and decent damage output every round. Headsplitters and Headchoppers fetch a good price in markets. Of course I only do Orc Warriors when I have enough hammers/picks/axes/billhooks with the relevant specialization.
Goblins are safe to fight if you're in fairly heavy armor, but they tend to connect pretty frequently and their spoils don't sell for much, hence I usually avoid. Farming a Jagged Pike or two for flexibility is still worth it though.