Knife/Dagger Build?

[Sai Kyouji]

What trait, perks and attributues would make a valid knife/dagger build (other than knife mastery, ofcourse) in case we want to collect some heavy armors and helmets?
Rather, is a knife build even worth it compared to late game heavy crossbows with 55% armor piercing?

[Frenetic]

just give all your frontline dudes a dagger in the second slot. do this as eary as possible. kill all raiders and trash first, until you can surround the leader or hedgeknight and equip daggers.. usually he starts to flee then. you can sacrifice some dogs to take the hits instead of your party members.

[Tephros83]

Originally posted by Sai Kyouji:

What trait, perks and attributues would make a valid knife/dagger build (other than knife mastery, ofcourse) in case we want to collect some heavy armors and helmets?
Rather, is a knife build even worth it compared to late game heavy crossbows with 55% armor piercing?

I've had a decent dagger guy, but he didn't only use the dagger. To be effective he needs high melee attack since there is a heavy accuracy penalty for puncture and high fatigue, given that three or four punctures per turn adds up to a lot of fatigue. Really any 2h guy with bags and quick hands can do it, but to be able to afford the dagger mastery perk for me it's always been a guy who was a 2h ax user, but didn't use the mansplitter. Center front position (ax guys are usually back flank). Like most of my ax guys, he had less melee defense than my sword and hammer 2h guys, but that's not because that's desirable so much as if he was that good you would have made him a sword or hammer guy instead. He can tolerate less melee defense partly because puncture doesn't benefit from having the shield put away, so one can have the shield out more often.

The dagger and ax are kind of opposite weapons, one avoiding hitting the armor while the other hitting all of it, but for the most part the weapons were used against different enemies. And both weapons work best with a very high melee attack, definitely >90 at level 11 (as opposed to 2h swords, with an accuracy bonus, and 2h hammers, with 3 chances to hit in an aoe attack). Sometimes I'd use the 2h ax, almost kill the enemy, and then switch to the dagger to use 3 ap to finish the enemy. Happens more often than you'd think due to some enemies having nine lives. The dagger's regular attack really sucks unless you get a good unique, but it uses very little fatigue.

Crossbows aren't really for stealing armor, so much as injuring strong enemies from afar, and killing soft enemies from afar. The dagger does allow you to walk 3 tiles and then attack.

So the dagger gives an advantage in battles with hedge knights, knights, and maybe brigand leaders to steal armor and finishing off nine lives guys. It's been nice against necrosavants too, 3 chances to finish them off if somebody else triggered nine lives.

It's true that one can just give everybody a dagger and surround the hedge knight at the end, but this only works if you are able to fight him after almost everybody else is dead. Sometimes the hedge knight is aggressive and immediately charges, so having a guy like this will allow you to loot their armor more often. The initial puncture attacks will make the knight less dangerous with injuries, so that he can be tanked and whittled down further. Obviously a net makes a big difference here, but somebody else should throw it.

[Estieukua]

That build is one of the few for which I might bother with Fast Adaptation and/or Backstabber. Or maybe not. Maybe I'd just give everyone a net to lower enemy defences.

Recover - Fast Adaptation - Backstabber - Dagger Mastery - Underdog - Nimble (100%) - Berserk - Dodge - Overwhelm - Anticipation ("get killed by polearms" build; could take Colossus or Steel Brow or Indomitable instead of Anticipation, to turn it into a "get killed by arbelasters after initially shrugging off their hits" build)

Or:
Recover - Dagger Mastery - Underdog - Nimble (100%) - Berserk - Dodge - Overwhelm - Anticipation - Colossus - Nine Lives or Steel Brow or Hold Out ("keep running errands to fishing villages so everyone can keep carrying nets to lower enemy defences" build)

Or:
Recover - Dagger Mastery - Underdog - Brawny - Nimble (not 100% unless Strong) or Battle Forged - Indomitable - Berserk - Colossus or Hold Out or Anticipation - Fast Adaptation and Backstabber (or Bags&Belts and Quick Hands so everyone can carry a store of nets) ("if in doubt, wear scale armour" build)

Or:
Recover - Berserk - Dagger Mastery - Axe Mastery - Bags&Belts - Quick Hands - Underdog and/or Rotation - Brawny - probably Nimble or Battle Forged - maybe Indomitable and/or Colossus ("trap enemies in nets, smash shields and/or armour with axes, and then switch to daggers and heater shields to puncture or stab them to death" build)