"Good" Stats

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

I am curious, what do veteran players consider good numbers (after equipment bonus/malus), by level 10/11, for the following stats (the usual values that I aim for, for my party are in brackets) -

Hitpoints (60 +)
Melee / Ranged Attack (80 +)
Melee Defense (40+ with shields, 20+ for duelists / 2h, ignore for archers)
Ranged Defense (mostly ignore)
Faitgue (70+ for heavily armored, 90+ for light / nimble, subtract 10-20 for iron lungs)
Initiative (100+ for light / nimble / archers, ignore for heavy armored & shielded)
Resolve (50+ usual, a couple of mercs with 70+ to deal with geists and to be banner-wielding sergeants)

[Stormbrooke]

Thanks for posting, I was wondering this as well. I had gone through and prioritized the stats for each role the way I play them, then determined which backgrounds had the best base starting values for these stats, then just kept hiring these recruits until I found some with stars in the desired stats as well.

But lately I have been wondering when is a stat "good enough" and you can stop investing points into it.

For example if you have an initiative of 130 was there any point in leveling it beyond 120, if at 120 you always go first even against high initiative opponets? Maybe instead of always leveling the same three stats when you start with a high base and have three stars, maybe it would have been better to level 4 stats or 5?

Probably requires an analysis of averages of end game eneimes to determine the best line up. Or maybe just playstyle observations like at this Faitgue level my axe bro rarely ever gets exhausted.

Edit: also probably means if there are certain desired end game stats, there are probably certain backgrounds or certain characters without stars who will never reach the optimal level by level 11 so may be "passable" mid-game but underpowered by late game standards.

[Donkerman]

I find resolve to be quite important so I try to get it to 50+. I actually use fortified mind on all mercs to get my resolve to 70 on all bros and 120 on the sergeant. Wavering or breaking condition could quickly lead to your death while confident morale is a massive boost.

[Kernest]

I consider 60 hitpoints to be extremely low, I only have it that low on archers that rarely if ever get hit. With my melee bros I try to keep it in the mid 80s after factoring in Colossus.

High HP lowers chance of receiving injuries, and receiving a bad one mid-battle can be the end for that bro.

I don't ignore ranged defense for my ranged bros, I try to get them to 20 at least, which when combined with Anticipation means they never get targeted by enemy ranged units, which means I don't need to invest in their HP much.

Resolve also needs to be fairly high for anyone that is in melee, in the 50s at least.

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

Yeah I forgot about resolve. Thanks for the reminder.

[Blinkicide]

I've only played to day 100 on expert ironman (before voluntarily retiring that party), so take my limited experience for what its worth:

1- range def: 10-15 base, so its total of mid 40's defense on a shield expert with kite shield. This lets you advance in most situations without having to sheildwall spam against marksmen. Backline, 30+ with anticipation perk. I give pikeman quickhands so they can carry around a shield and alternate weapon; when they are advancing with their shield in cover, they are likely capped at min chance against mere marksmen untill they swap it for their weapon.

2- HP for melee 71hp is a threshold, because any archer you rundown can be holding a dagger and kill you in two puncture hits ...it's happened. I think only 61 hp is needed to guarantee survvial against two goblin blade attacks, and 81 hp is needed for two puntures from a rondel dagger. Remember dagger puncture cant crit and ignores 10% armor reduction, so its alway true damage.

Archers its about surviving the crossbow shot to the head and the random arrow or two, so steel brow, and 60-65 hp, but you might get away with lower.

I take steel brow on everyone to deal with crossbows and other headshots.

3- I've been fine with low to mid 40s resolve, my guys at the flanks have high 40s. Don't think I cracked 50s on anyone save my seargents which have been between 80-130. Staying within range of a strong seargent can make a big dfference. If you have guys outside of range a lot in melee, then obviously they need more resolve.

[Stormbrooke]

I like the critical damage analysis to establish HP thresholds, that's a good way to think about it.

I too am never cocky when I engage an archer in melee. I know there's a chance those dagger fights get nasty :)

[Blinkicide]

Originally posted by Stormbrooke:

For example if you have an initiative of 130 was there any point in leveling it beyond 120, if at 120 you always go first even against high initiative opponets?

Your initiative is fluid, you subtract your current fatigue from it. So you can start out going first, then going second... Initi can even go negative. If your init is higher than your fatigue, maybe it can't go neg then.

I just recenlty figured out initative strategies involving turn order like going last one round then first the other so you can go back to back and do things like drop your shield for double grip/deulist (with quick hands) and pick it back after your next round, or swap to a 2hander then back to a shield.

You might try picking an enemy you are trying to dominate (e.g. centurions, honor guards, etc) figuring out their initiative (it varies based on their gear, but you can figure out the range), and aiming to stay above it. Like in my notes I have undead auxilleries are around 50 initiative.

[The Duck Knight]

mdef and rdef = as high as possible. 40 is just to low. Will result in a lot of taken hits, which means: high chance to get hurt and more costs to repairing armor.
Since I'm usualle playing with dodge and nimble on medium/light armor:
Fatigue+initiative as high as possible.
Melee/range 80-90
hitpoints: 70-80. In case some bloody crossbow hit them ignoring the armor, while nimble is not triggering.
Resolve: 50 is fine, a bit lower can be compensated with a high resolve in banner-bearer

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

Not sure why your experience has been otherwise, but my mercs that have 40+ melee defense almost never get hit.

[The Duck Knight]

Originally posted by Mitth'raw'nuruodo:

Not sure why your experience has been otherwise, but my mercs that have 40+ melee defense almost never get hit.

maybe just some RNG-badluck, but on veteran I take a lot of hits with only 40 def.

[jfoytek]

Hitpoints (68-78 Frontline/ 58-68 Backline)
Melee / Ranged Attack (90 +)
Melee Defense (35+ without adding in shields - Frontline)
Ranged Defense (35+ Backline)
Faitgue (90+ for Front Line,110+ for backline)
Initiative (130+ for backline, Initiative doesnt matter for front line)
Resolve (40+ On majority of Mercs! / Bannerman 80+ / Seargant 60-70 Center Frontline / and Frontline Flanks 55-65 for Giest hunting)

[jwpenman69]

Crap I wish I could find that many unique items, nice group of brothers.

[Bam Bam]

Originally posted by Mitth'raw'nuruodo:

I am curious, what do veteran players consider good numbers (after equipment bonus/malus), by level 10/11, for the following stats (the usual values that I aim for, for my party are in brackets) -

Hitpoints (60 +)
Melee / Ranged Attack (80 +)
Melee Defense (40+ with shields, 20+ for duelists / 2h, ignore for archers)
Ranged Defense (mostly ignore)
Faitgue (70+ for heavily armored, 90+ for light / nimble, subtract 10-20 for iron lungs)
Initiative (100+ for light / nimble / archers, ignore for heavy armored & shielded)
Resolve (50+ usual, a couple of mercs with 70+ to deal with geists and to be banner-wielding sergeants)

This is all fine mostly, these are pretty much the numbers to aim for. At least on less expensive backgrounds. Late-game when you have mostly Sellswords some stats can be higher though.

HP: 60+ is what most bros can get away with. Get closer to 80+ for zweihander bros and armoured meatshields who use Taunt and attract arrow fire with intentionaly low ranged def.

Range/Melee Attack: No reason for a halfway decent Hunter not to be to 90-100 unless you are building a hybrid. Hybrids suck. Melee bros need more rolls in resolve, fatigue and defense and should be happy to get 80+ in attack.

Range Def: Your light archers want to be either at the 20 or 30 breakpoints for Anticipation. If 20 then give an extra defensive perk. Throwing specialists don't care about vision penalties and can go the battleforged route instead if you choose. Front-liners who are not meat shields could definitely use whatever rolls can possibly be spared. Even 20 points make a huge difference here.

Fatigue: 70 with Recover is about enough for primary weapon skills and a few secondarys. Bros that will have 80-ish after plate armour can be used for Taunt, Rotate, Rally ect.

Resolve: This stat is a bit iffy. I used 55 as the gold standard but I have several times seen bros break and run just from being surrounded by a few puny Raiders while wearing 9k worth of armour and a giant hammer. I try for 60+ on anything that operates away from the main group now. Your mileage may vary.

[Guurt]

Originally posted by Mitth'raw'nuruodo:

I am curious, what do veteran players consider good numbers (after equipment bonus/malus), by level 10/11, for the following stats (the usual values that I aim for, for my party are in brackets) -

Hitpoints (60 +)
Melee / Ranged Attack (80 +)
Melee Defense (40+ with shields, 20+ for duelists / 2h, ignore for archers)
Ranged Defense (mostly ignore)
Faitgue (70+ for heavily armored, 90+ for light / nimble, subtract 10-20 for iron lungs)
Initiative (100+ for light / nimble / archers, ignore for heavy armored & shielded)
Resolve (50+ usual, a couple of mercs with 70+ to deal with geists and to be banner-wielding sergeants)

Your numbers are pretty much where I go for.

I like to get to as close to 100 on hit points for front line melee units.

Ranged Defense can be completely ignored on any melee/ranged unit that will wear 300/300 armor and be using Battle Forged.

Ranged Defense is extremely important on any characters that will not be using shield or 300/300 armor and Battle Forged.

With my archers I take Ranged Defense every single level up, and even with Nimble, Dodge, and Anticipation an archer can take an unlucky hit... so I don't think there is an upper limit where Ranged Defense can be ignored.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Stormbrooke:

But lately I have been wondering when is a stat "good enough" and you can stop investing points into it.

Is there really a point where something is "good enough"? The problem is that some end-game encounters are sufficiently hard enough that you want to maximize everything if you want to beat it. I have a Swordmaster at Melee Skill 96 at level 7, and I think I will level it to at least 100 and possibly beyond. I have seen many folks with screenshots of 100-plus Melee or Ranged Skill, and I don't think that's too much. I want to be able to ensure that I will have the maximum 5 percent miss chance against everything - if possible.