Space Marine Fleet ships

[CharlieOneThree]

ok i got to ask what is going to be filling the cruiser and battle cruiser ships roles for the space marines ?

if i remember my old gothic rule book we had battlebarge (space marine battleship) and strike cruiser (light cruiser) and from some of the add ons we got our own space marine escorts too.

so what ships are going to fill the gap ?? anyone got any ideas.

[Kadaeux]

Originally posted by Raymond Reddington:

" Instead, a compromise was reached which limited the Space Marines to vessels whose primary role was that of transport, delivery and suppression designed to facilitate planetary assault. Only the smallest of vessels would be permitted to act exclusively as gunships, with the larger battlebarges and strike cruisers remaining predominantly as aids to invasion, ensuring the Space Marines would never present a threat to the Imperial Navy proper. Inevitably, the wrangling over interpretation of a ship’s ‘primary role’ leads to some chapters possessing rather more versatile fleets than the Imperial Navy is entirely comfortable with."

So, working within that information, its entirely plausable (canon wise) for the Astartes to have Cruisers and Battleships.

No, that is referring to the fact that Astartes vessels significantly outclass their competitors in the same class.

Example: The Strike Cruiser has a similar armament to the Dauntless. ALMOST identical in fact.

The Dauntless has 30cm Strength 4 Weapon Batteries port/starboard as well as Prow 30cm Strength 3 Lances.

The Strike Cruiser has the same weapon batteries, but instead of Strength 3 Lances. It has a Strength 3 Bombardment Cannon AND a Launch Bay for 2 Squadrons of Thunderhawks. Additionally it has more armour and twice as many turrets.

All for just 35 points more.

In tabletop terms, for every hit you score with a lance, you roll 1 dice and if it's a 6, you cause a critical hit.

In tabletop terms, for every hit you score with a bombardment cannon, you roll 1 dice and if it's a 4, 5 or 6, you cause a critical hit.

Yes, the Marine's gun is 3x more likely to critical, and on top of that it can throw 2 Thunderhawk squadrons at you to boot.

[Procrastinating Gamer]

Originally posted by Kadaeux:

Originally posted by Khloros:

I would not be supprised if Spacemarines put more focus on escort ships, like you roll in with a battle cruiser, and have like 6 escorts.

Escorts being the thunderhawks or assault rams, so you very small, very fast shipts that can launch very powerful boardings, or deal lots of damage.

...

No.

The Caestus Assault Ram, and the Thunderhawk, are the equivalent of a carrier's bombers and assault boats.


The Cobra Destroyer is 57 times the length of a Thunderhawk. A Thunderhawk is smaller than it's turret. The Caestus Assault ram is even smaller than the Thunderhawk.

Specifically; Thunderhawks serve as both fighters and assault boats for Space Marine ships (at least in TT BFG, not sure whether the Caestus Assault Ram ever got BFG stats).

[Kadaeux]

Originally posted by Shadow88:

Specifically; Thunderhawks serve as both fighters and assault boats for Space Marine ships (at least in TT BFG, not sure whether the Caestus Assault Ram ever got BFG stats).

It didn't, as you noted, Thunderhawks doubled as Fighters and Assault Boats (and there was good odds that they could intercept up to 2 squadrons a turn)

The 2010 Compendium introduced a new Thunderhawk Variant to serve as their Bomber.

"Thunderhawk Annihilator
The Thunderhawk Annihilator is a specialized gunship employed only by crusading Chapters. Forsaking its transport capability in favor of a powerful Annihilator cannon, it provides crusading Chapters with the kind of thunderous firepower normally provided by the bombers of the Imperial Navy or the Battle Titans of the Adeptus Mechanicus."

[Boris the Bullet Dodger]

I think you're mistaking what I am trying to say?

I entirely agree with you, that Astartes ships are well armored and armed.

However, in their current state, with the ships at their disposal, it wouldn't be a total rout of the Imperial Navy.

They are really good at short range, and the bombardment cannon is disgusting in the damage it deals out, but honestly in a pitched battle they wouldn't be able to reach the enemy ships at long range.

Either way, I believe they will be a mix of imperial navy and orks. Strong at short range with excellent lightning strike/boarding capabilities.

[Kadaeux]

Originally posted by Raymond Reddington:

I think you're mistaking what I am trying to say?

I entirely agree with you, that Astartes ships are well armored and armed.

However, in their current state, with the ships at their disposal, it wouldn't be a total rout of the Imperial Navy.

No, i'm saying it isn't possible for the Astartes to have Cruisers and Battlecruisers, that passage you quoted (that I quoted earlier) is referencing the fact that while the Adeptus Astartes are obeying the spirit of the law (They can't have dedicated gunboats larger than escort class) they violate it, by throwing drop pod bays and hangars on ships that outperform the Imperial Navy's equivalent.

They are really good at short range, and the bombardment cannon is disgusting in the damage it deals out, but honestly in a pitched battle they wouldn't be able to reach the enemy ships at long range.

Except that they're not slow :p

Either way, I believe they will be a mix of imperial navy and orks. Strong at short range with excellent lightning strike/boarding capabilities.

In performance, agreed.

They're going to be punishing up close, especially that Bombardment cannon (I suspect it's going to get treated more like an accurate macrocannon instead of the never-miss lance gameplay-wise, or people are going to scream like little girls at being massively critted every few seconds.)

They're probably going to attract a lance-heavy counter, given that they have what amounts to 75/75/75 Armour.

[Gobboman]

Originally posted by Kadaeux:

Originally posted by GoblinFive:

It has been stated in pretty much every codex that only Caesar, Octavius and Severian were in service during the Battle for Macragge, half a millenia after the Gothic War, with Caesar being destroyed either during that battle or shortly thereafter. The rest have been either lost or possibly given to successor chapters at some point.

Not at all. The Codex does not say that the Caesar, Octavius and Severian are the only Battlebarges in service.

Now I have to admit that I can't remember off-hand if the 7th edition Marine codex included the Ultramarines organisation chart, but 3rd and 5th definitely did, both which listed the Ultramarines fleet size as 3 Battle Barges (Octavius, Caesar and Severian), 8 Strike Cruiser and about a dozen 'Rapid Strike Vessels'. As a comparison, Blood Angels have 2 BBs, 7 Strike Cruisers and 16 Rapid Strike Vessels(5e codex).

Unless of course you mean that 3 named ships don't exclude others from existing. Certainly it could be read like that, but why give an exact number?

Originally posted by Kadaeux:

Originally posted by GoblinFive:

Now Space Wolves and Dark Angels, not to mention a crusade chapter like the Black Templars certainly have close to 10 BBs in operation at any give time.

The Ultramarines have one of the largest fleets in evidence. (Marine fleets that is.)

This I'd like to have a source for.

[Kadaeux]

Originally posted by GoblinFive:

This I'd like to have a source for.

One of the codexes mentioned it. Crusading Chapters have big fleets, but so do the Ultramarines. (Remember, unlike ANY other Chapter, the Ultramarines are also administering to the Empire of Ultramar.)

[MrWeebsuk]

The space marine dlc will we be able to pick the chapter you like ?

[Kadaeux]

Originally posted by Weebsuk:

The space marine dlc will we be able to pick the chapter you like ?

No.

They are likely to be Ultramarines or Imperial Fists by default. (Former because that's what they're already modelled as, look at the SM DLC picture, latter because it's the Marine colours for the Campaign) with othre major chapters likely to be the Favours. (Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels and either A: Ultramarines if they're not the default or B: Black Templars if they are. is my guess.)

[MrWeebsuk]

Thank you for the reply ah well Lion El Johnson will have to wait to see the Sword of Caliban strike fear into Chaos.

[Kadaeux]

Originally posted by Weebsuk:

Thank you for the reply ah well Lion El Johnson will have to wait to see the Sword of Caliban strike fear into Chaos.

Yeah, i'd be nice if you could just pick a chapter (not favour style) but the iconography etc is actualy modelled onto the hull not just a decal. At least going by the picture available.

[Darth Emo Elvis]

i don't know about their light cruisers, or normal cruisers..... but they have two frigates, the Gladius class and the Nova class... and one destoryer, the Hunter class

[Kadaeux]

Originally posted by Darth Emo Elvis:

i don't know about their light cruisers, or normal cruisers..... but they have two frigates, the Gladius class and the Nova class... and one destoryer, the Hunter class

Strike Cruisers are light cruisers :p

The Gladius, Nova and Hunter are all escorts :p

[Ninjafroggie]

Originally posted by Kadaeux:

Originally posted by Weebsuk:

Thank you for the reply ah well Lion El Johnson will have to wait to see the Sword of Caliban strike fear into Chaos.

Yeah, i'd be nice if you could just pick a chapter (not favour style) but the iconography etc is actualy modelled onto the hull not just a decal. At least going by the picture available.

that's not neccessarily true...look at the icon of the omnisiah on the prow of imperial ships with admech favor.

[MrWeebsuk]

I was hoping for this at some point in the future http://www.bishco-post.com/Dark_Angels/the_rock.html but I know they would not do that.