Chaos fleets are massively op and boring

[Bitch Doctor]

I cant even get close to catching them so they just whittle down my ships until i jump away. Incredibly boring and pointless

[Captain Michael Vulpi]

um not really it's just a matter of good tactics if you mwj close to them you can end them casue they not bad at brawling but against imps or orks no they not gonna last

[Seldkam]

Hey look, Eldar get nerfed and now we have people whining about Chaos xD

I wonder if I smell regret...

[Sevrun]

Then you're doing something wrong Dodger. Remember they have to get close to ID your ships, so something is coming close enough to fight, if they run away use running silent to lure them back in.

Stasis Bombs can help a great deal in corralling an enemy... That's just ideas off the top of my head as I've never had a problem closing with a Chaos force as Imperials.

[Seldkam]

Originally posted by Sevrun:

Then you're doing something wrong Dodger. Remember they have to get close to ID your ships, so something is coming close enough to fight, if they run away use running silent to lure them back in.

Stasis Bombs can help a great deal in corralling an enemy... That's just ideas off the top of my head as I've never had a problem closing with a Chaos force as Imperials.

There's more than just that, if you use a High Energy Turn as IN, Chaos, or Orkz, you will be identified. If they use a probe as well, both types, you will be identified. And, even an escort running right into your fleet can sometimes be worth the information even if it dies.

[Bitch Doctor]

Originally posted by Seldkam:

Originally posted by Sevrun:

Then you're doing something wrong Dodger. Remember they have to get close to ID your ships, so something is coming close enough to fight, if they run away use running silent to lure them back in.

Stasis Bombs can help a great deal in corralling an enemy... That's just ideas off the top of my head as I've never had a problem closing with a Chaos force as Imperials.

There's more than just that, if you use a High Energy Turn as IN, Chaos, or Orkz, you will be identified. If they use a probe as well, both types, you will be identified. And, even an escort running right into your fleet can sometimes be worth the information even if it dies.

Agreed entirely, after they know where i am they just use the stupid long range lasers with 12,000 range for the rest of the game, all my ships are too slow to chase them

[Ludovsky]

Yeah. Though a microed kiting Chaos Fleet has often caused me troubles... as the Orks I;ve sometimes just tore into the "Chaos Boyz" like paper when catching up to them.

Then again, one of the mistake a lot of orks players I've seen too often make is to forget the importance of escort ships; especially just how useful the Brute ramship and the Savage Gunship can be. Really, sometimes as the orks in 300 ships games I had as little as one, sometimes two, light cruiser ships and the rest was generally Savages with the occasional Brute.

The Savage's powerful heavy Kannon(especially once you can afford to upgrade the savage class!) is terrific and the cheap price for their performances allows you to often field them in strike groups you can spread so that you can ultimately limit a lot your enemy's ability to maneuver without running into one of your ships.... which ultimately goes a great deal to help counter the weak point that is the short range of most of your Ork Ships.

Generally my setup in the early ork game, that worked well again most enemies, is a light cruiser equipped with the frontal Mega Kannon(soon upgraded to ignore armor, with all crew points going into the master gunner), while the other light cruiser is one equipped with heavy kannon broadsides and gradually levelled up into a "boardingship" by upping it's "boyz" crew category as fast as possible while getting the Goffs clans favor as soon as possible to further bolster it's boarding capacities AND give it a VERY notable ramming boost(which is possibly an ork specialty. I've now grown convinced that any victory that does not involves ramming into a glorious explosions the last enemy cruiser trying to escape through the warp does not merit to be called a "proper" orky victory).

Also, in fact I find that setup up the boarding action(NOT lightning strikes) to be automatic has often always helped with my cruisers when I field a fleet strong in escort ships since lighter enemy ships trying to evade roaming (and sometimes multiples in larger games) 2-3 strong packs of Savage gunships eventually run into the broadside range of my cruisers and thus into the firing arcs of their boarding pods.... with the Orks' powerful strenght in boarding actions, this is not an advantage that should be neglected(in fact I would say that with the Orks, you pretty much want to board as often as possible... be it via boarding pods, the occasional opportunist lightning strike or by a close range shot of boardin' torpedoes. Really, at least one boarding specialized brawler is always a requisite of any ork fleets I feel).

Really, with the orks it seems the core of their playstyle is basically "Rammin', boardin', and never enough Dakka(escort ships)" to make sure you can surround even your most agile enemies to corral them in and get into brawling range with them for boarding and heavy/mega Kannon action before generally finishing off crippled enemy ships with a strong driven ramming action using "da big red button" with your largest or dedicated ram ship that happen to be the closest.

So really the tennet of Orks sems to be:
-Bring a lot of Dakka and Boyz(read: have a ton of escort ships, potentially on semi-automatic controls to ease micro needs, to surround the enemy and corral them in for your bigger boarding and kill ships)
-Boardin'(board enemy ships all the time, literally use automated boarding as a defensive measure against enemy ships trying to strafe or flank you)
-Rammin'(the perfect orky finisher to use against crippled enemy ship. Can often double with "Boardin'" through a Goffs-affiliated cruisers with maxed Boyz crew category for maximum boardin'&Rammin' combo)

[Seldkam]

Originally posted by Dodger:

Originally posted by Seldkam:

There's more than just that, if you use a High Energy Turn as IN, Chaos, or Orkz, you will be identified. If they use a probe as well, both types, you will be identified. And, even an escort running right into your fleet can sometimes be worth the information even if it dies.

Agreed entirely, after they know where i am they just use the stupid long range lasers with 12,000 range for the rest of the game, all my ships are too slow to chase them

Yea vs. Chaos, under NO circumstances can you afford to be identified before you get in range yourself. Taunt is good to keep them in place, Stasis bomb ofc, and if they do have a kiting fleet, go for their engines (click all the enemy ships, and slick on the engine icon, it looks like a jet engine).

[Hrabia Kronnenberg]

Originally posted by Dodger:

I cant even get close to catching them so they just whittle down my ships until i jump away. Incredibly boring and pointless

You are bad, that happens...

Don't talk about balance changes and what is and what is not OP after 2 hours of playing cause thats just retarded mate... There are many tools to deal with range Chaos.

[Captain Michael Vulpi]

Originally posted by Hrabia Kronnenberg:

Originally posted by Dodger:

I cant even get close to catching them so they just whittle down my ships until i jump away. Incredibly boring and pointless

You are bad, that happens...

Don't talk about balance changes and what is and what is not OP after 2 hours of playing cause thats just retarded mate... There are many tools to deal with range Chaos.

off the bat is well mwj right in their faces and proceed to smack them about except if you are playing chaos or eldar yourself then it's more like a long range duel.

[Bitch Doctor]

Well i just got into a match then where i had 12 escort ships, and destroyed all his fleet except 2 ships, he then used those 2 ships to kite me for the rest of the match using boost, superior turn speed and his 12000 range weapon to kill all of my ships

[Hrabia Kronnenberg]

U could use sillent running, and that would force him to spot u again - use ur brain sometimes;p

[Bitch Doctor]

Originally posted by Ludovsky:

Yeah. Though a microed kiting Chaos Fleet has often caused me troubles... as the Orks I;ve sometimes just tore into the "Chaos Boyz" like paper when catching up to them.

Then again, one of the mistake a lot of orks players I've seen too often make is to forget the importance of escort ships; especially just how useful the Brute ramship and the Savage Gunship can be. Really, sometimes as the orks in 300 ships games I had as little as one, sometimes two, light cruiser ships and the rest was generally Savages with the occasional Brute.

The Savage's powerful heavy Kannon(especially once you can afford to upgrade the savage class!) is terrific and the cheap price for their performances allows you to often field them in strike groups you can spread so that you can ultimately limit a lot your enemy's ability to maneuver without running into one of your ships.... which ultimately goes a great deal to help counter the weak point that is the short range of most of your Ork Ships.

Generally my setup in the early ork game, that worked well again most enemies, is a light cruiser equipped with the frontal Mega Kannon(soon upgraded to ignore armor, with all crew points going into the master gunner), while the other light cruiser is one equipped with heavy kannon broadsides and gradually levelled up into a "boardingship" by upping it's "boyz" crew category as fast as possible while getting the Goffs clans favor as soon as possible to further bolster it's boarding capacities AND give it a VERY notable ramming boost(which is possibly an ork specialty. I've now grown convinced that any victory that does not involves ramming into a glorious explosions the last enemy cruiser trying to escape through the warp does not merit to be called a "proper" orky victory).

Also, in fact I find that setup up the boarding action(NOT lightning strikes) to be automatic has often always helped with my cruisers when I field a fleet strong in escort ships since lighter enemy ships trying to evade roaming (and sometimes multiples in larger games) 2-3 strong packs of Savage gunships eventually run into the broadside range of my cruisers and thus into the firing arcs of their boarding pods.... with the Orks' powerful strenght in boarding actions, this is not an advantage that should be neglected(in fact I would say that with the Orks, you pretty much want to board as often as possible... be it via boarding pods, the occasional opportunist lightning strike or by a close range shot of boardin' torpedoes. Really, at least one boarding specialized brawler is always a requisite of any ork fleets I feel).

Really, with the orks it seems the core of their playstyle is basically "Rammin', boardin', and never enough Dakka(escort ships)" to make sure you can surround even your most agile enemies to corral them in and get into brawling range with them for boarding and heavy/mega Kannon action before generally finishing off crippled enemy ships with a strong driven ramming action using "da big red button" with your largest or dedicated ram ship that happen to be the closest.

So really the tennet of Orks sems to be:
-Bring a lot of Dakka and Boyz(read: have a ton of escort ships, potentially on semi-automatic controls to ease micro needs, to surround the enemy and corral them in for your bigger boarding and kill ships)
-Boardin'(board enemy ships all the time, literally use automated boarding as a defensive measure against enemy ships trying to strafe or flank you)
-Rammin'(the perfect orky finisher to use against crippled enemy ship. Can often double with "Boardin'" through a Goffs-affiliated cruisers with maxed Boyz crew category for maximum boardin'&Rammin' combo)

Thanks for the in depth explanation of some of the useful tactics for orks, i do appreciate that some of this is is down to my level of skill in the game, but this doesnt change the fact that spending 10 minutes chasing down ships who are well out of range is really quite boring and frustrating.

[Captain Michael Vulpi]

Originally posted by Dodger:

Well i just got into a match then where i had 12 escort ships, and destroyed all his fleet except 2 ships, he then used those 2 ships to kite me for the rest of the match using boost, superior turn speed and his 12000 range weapon to kill all of my ships

well credit to him for making a hell of a comback also 12 escorts dude that's not the smartest move.

[Bitch Doctor]

Originally posted by Hrabia Kronnenberg:

U could use sillent running, and that would force him to spot u again - use ur brain sometimes;p

Orks cant use silent run

[Bitch Doctor]

Originally posted by Captain Michael Vulpi:

Originally posted by Dodger:

Well i just got into a match then where i had 12 escort ships, and destroyed all his fleet except 2 ships, he then used those 2 ships to kite me for the rest of the match using boost, superior turn speed and his 12000 range weapon to kill all of my ships

well credit to him for making a hell of a comback also 12 escorts dude that's not the smartest move.

Ha yer all my good ships were damaged though, also i wanted to try out a different tactic