Strip Miner : Is it worth the effort?

[Mayhem13]

I know that the strip miner is designed to be used with the reactor as a power source, but it is a very expensive piece of kit.

So why does it perform so badly in comparison to the extractors?

[SeliG]

As far as I see, Strip Miners are extrememly useful in collecting the base resources i.e Iron, water, copper etc. Take a book with you though because it can take around an hour to mine an asteriod.

I personally use extractors now just for refueling my ship with hydrogen, max 3.
Strip miner for common resource.
Drones for rares ;)

Hope this helps.

Wing Commanders Server - https://discord.gg/dnge4yn

[Mayhem13]

Well I finally built up enough resources to put one on my ship; such a joyful moment :)

Then I spend half an hour flying around trying to find a rich asteroid; bingo when I find one.

With glee I run down to the strip miner and set it up; only to be met with horror and dissapointment.

The power consumption is horendus and it barely out performes a ship with 3 regular extractors in a starting area.

I was a bit dissapointed to say the least.

[Mojack]

You can get away using hydro with one strip miner. But sure, the power consumption is high,
so its more comfortable to use reactor
Strip miner does have its uses, mainly for common ressources.
Rich rocks simply have more yield. I ran into rocks with 30k Berylium in them.
With extractors, you have to constantly move; except if you mine at starter station for iron, copper, water.
I do prefer the stripper over extractor even for iron, copper water (at station), since its more
comfortable to automate a stripper, then automate a multitude of extractors.
I am using a Quad Strip miner setup, arranged in a square. that gives me a very short walking distance, compared to a long line of extractors.

[Preach_A]

"I personally use extractors now just for refueling my ship with hydrogen" Sorry, am I missing something here or don t you need a refinery to get hydrogen? I think the size (height) of refineries is a real pain, because it makes ship designs ugly and unsymmetrical both from inside and outside. But without refinery extractors dont make much sense, do they?

[Mayhem13]

Yes you can get away with using hydro and the strip miner, but is it worth the effort.

I would like to understand what you mean by "comfortable to automate a stripper" as just by its sheer size I am unable to truly utilize one by myself and require a friend, yet with the aid of a friend (or 60 silver and a few dead pirate drones), I can comfortably man 4 resource extractors.

Especially considering water, iron, carbon and copper. 4 resource extractors will equal the output of a stripminer and in more places, but for a fraction of the power cost (hydrogen or nuclear).
-nuclear assuming you have >5 batteries for the job,
start the reactor (T1 heatsinks, U235, Steel Turbine)
for a few minutes to charge the batteries.
-Hydrogen, just leave one T2 Gen (under utilized) running.
and you don't need to worry about power for the rest of your minning session (eg. xlarge hydro tank and 20+ cargo)

my real point is that it doesn't seem ballanced. (ATM)
I understand that the stripminer is suppose to be a high teir item but IMO due to its cost and size, it could be better suited and cover a greater range on the tech tree.

I could understand requiring the power it does in you example of the Berylium or other rares.

IMO the strip miner lazer's power output should be ajustable.
ie different resources would require higher output levels.

eg water melts at ~273K, copper at ~1350K and iron at ~1800K

For game sake I would make "resource rarity" the key factor rather than reality.
ie water melts easily, iron a little harder then copper etc.
up to having the rares require the output of T2 and T3 equiped reactors (or just evaporating your hydrogen supply).

You could then make it so overpowering the lazer for the resource would increase the mining speed and vice versa.

IMO this would inhance the stripminers range of uses and ballance it against its (Frankly ATM supperior) younger brother.

[Ziron]

you use more energy then you can even get back with it...
why is there even hydrogen astroids if you flat out lose more then what it costs?
the whole thing seems pointless

[Johnno]

Originally posted by Ziron:

you use more energy then you can even get back with it...

Perhaps if you mine water with the intent to make hydrogen while running it on hydrogen, there are however rich asteroids with uranium. Also, you can theoretically run it on batteries powered by solar, in that case it'd be free...

why is there even hydrogen astroids if you flat out lose more then what it costs?

You mean water asteroids. Water can be refined into deuterium, also water asteroids sometimes hold nitrogen (and some rares from what I recall).

the whole thing seems pointless

Only if you look at it from one very specific point of view. Look beyond that and it has plenty of uses.

[Mayhem13]

Originally posted by Johnno:

Originally posted by Ziron:

the whole thing seems pointless

Only if you look at it from one very specific point of view. Look beyond that and it has plenty of uses.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that it is useless, but to say that it has pleanty of uses; as it is ATM is equally blind.

It is not as if rich water asteroids are every where and they do take effort to find, but mining them with a strip miner for hydrogen or duterium is superceeded by inferior tech.

[Mojack]

1) whatever works for you : if you prefer extractors, use them
2) I can manage 4 strip miners solo easy, and without running. way way easier then
extractors.
use ACTR to automate. You want to use ACTR for extractors too, unless you like
to run around non stop. Well, I guess, with just 4 extractors you can run.
I was using 8 extractors 6 refineries solo, before strip miners, nuclear and automation. was a
pain, to say the least. running simulator.
3) 5 batteries = lol. no man, you got that wrong. you need tons of batteries if you go nuclear,
to not waste the power. Even with T1 (and plat turbines), I would recommend to have
at least 100 million charge in batteries. I use a dedicated room for just batteries,
something like 16x2x2 tiles (stacked a second row on top)

Rich rock have over 100k water in them. I use it to make Deuterium.
As I said. Mining at a station, where you never run out of rocks, you can sure do it with extractors.

But for the rest, like Silicon and up, rich rock with stripper makes life easier.
With extractors, you have to move to constantly spawn in fresh rocks, and if you move, you will
run into skrill.
With a Strip miner, you just sit there, release your defence drones, and suck that baby dry.
Once you run into uncommon and rare stuff, you will understand.

Closing point:
I understand, Strip miner and nuclear is for the advanced player.
Once you have a nice stockpile of the ressources needed for those kind of ship and equipment,
you will not look back.
For a starting player, extractor and hydro power is the way to get started.

[Mayhem13]

1) you have missed my point, it is not that I prefer extractors, just that 4 out shine 1 stripminer.
2) If you are using ACTR's you will still be better off using extractors over stripminers for water copper, carbon and iron, hands down
3) Sorry miss comunication the 5 batteries were to supply the extractors for a period, NOT to store power from a constantly running Reactor. ie turn reactor on let it heat up then turn it off batteries charged as appose to leaving it on for the entire time.

Closing point:
Who are these advanced players?
And who is the starting player you talk about?

LOL superiority complex hey?

[Mojack]

Actually, you missed my point.

I am simply speaking for myself.
namelly, that I do prefer the stripper for certain task.
same, as I prefer mining drones for certain task, and I do have reasons to do so.

If you prefer the extractor, so by all means, use it.

Drones mining speed is five times less then extractor.
still I prefer to mine rares with drones, even with that crippled slow ass mining speed.

And it seems, I am not the only one doing just that.

I ignore your last point, since it has nothing to do with the discussion.

[Mayhem13]

OK good lets stay away from personal stuff and just discuss the point :)
I appoligise; I might have read some miss intended hostility from your previous post.

As I don't really want to argue about personal preferences; everybody for there own :)

I intentionally left out the comparison of speed between the drones, because drones basically do all the work for you.
ie they find and mine even follow you through warp.

The resource extractors have the advantage of continuing to mine through warp.
ie jump into a field and once they have secured an asteroid your ship is free to manoeuvre.

Where as the stripminer limites the ship to less than 180 degrees of rotation and virtually a stationary position, requires the player to navigate asteroid fields for a considerable time then manually aim it.

The stripminer has many drawbacks to it uses and few advantages.
ie I am never going to consider building a hydrogen refuling station with a stripminer as it is just not a viable option ATM.

I suposse what I am arguing for is to have a real option between whether I consider the use of the stripminer or extractors and NOT to be forced by maths and game mechanics.

[Mojack]

Originally posted by N0085:

The resource extractors have the advantage of continuing to mine through warp.
ie jump into a field and once they have secured an asteroid your ship is free to manoeuvre.

for me, this is actually annoying for a few reasons :
1) you have to constantly move to spawn fresh rocks, which also means, you will spawn in
fresh skrill. I am not mining in starter, and outside, skril rating is usually at its maximum.
2) with the exception of water, rocks will have besides the ore you are after, also high amount
of iron and carbon. You have to clear that out of the extractor, which means more automation
and heat sinks burnt.

Originally posted by N0085:

ie I am never going to consider building a hydrogen refuling station with a stripminer as it is just not a viable option ATM.

agreed. strip mining for hydro is not viable for two reasons.
1) There is endless water right at the station. so setting up a dedicated water mining stations with
extractors, is more efficient in every way.
2) This reason is personal preference : On big ships, I go nuclear anyways. so no
need for mass production hydro. I use hydro only for small ships, where fuel consumption is
low anyways.

That being said, I will still strip mine a water rock, if I run into one.
But I am not actively seeking them out.

Originally posted by N0085:

I suposse what I am arguing for is to have a real option between whether I consider the use of the stripminer or extractors and NOT to be forced by maths and game mechanics.

ok, understood.
However:
Game mechanics is what makes a game, and a game is what it is.
So you use the tools the game provides, and put them to their best use.
It is in the nature of most gamers, to be efficient. To do, what works best for them.
In competitive games, it will come down to maths, and if you want to win, you are forced to
work with that.
Well, mining is not exactly a competitive task and not about winning I guess, but I am sure, most people would prefer to get the highest yield of ore possible in a given time.
And if you want to achieve that, then well, you will kinda be forced to use the best possible tools and setup.

In my case, I am a lazy person, mostly solo on my ship.
So I mostly think about shortest possible setup time, shortest possible walking distances, and flight times, lowest possible down time.

If nuclear is more effective for my ship, I wil use that instead of hydro.
Sames goes with the choice I make to use extractor, stripper or drones.
I can find use for all of them, depending on what I am after.
And well I guess, you could say, that game mechanics is forcing that upon me.
I tried to mine water with drones. well, no thank you, lol.
However, a guy in game chat said, he is doing just that. good for him, I guess;
he seemed happy, or he was trolling. dunno.

[Mayhem13]

I suppose for me Skrill and Pirate drones are something that I actively seek when mining as they are my key source of NOS, Pt and Au, also coincidence or not in my xp Skrill seem to congrigate around the U and Be asteroids too, so they tend to influence my decission on which driection to fly when searching an asteroid field.

To be a "Have" or a "Have not"
(I took this to be your meaning between advanced and starter player).

ie I can't say from experiance but maybe if you had advanced enough to have drones flowing from you ears you might not think twice about thier efficiency for mining water.

As maths tends to aid the "Haves" and hinder the "Have nots".

One of the main negative responce topics to IR is the amount of time required in repetitive mining as a starter player, I believe that if ballanced properly the strip miner could become a good goal to help alieviate this problem if it was opened up to the intermediate player as well.

[Mojack]

Originally posted by N0085:

One of the main negative responce topics to IR is the amount of time required in repetitive mining as a starter player

that is a direct result of lacking features.
The game at its currect state is basically just :
design your ship in ship designer, then gather the ressources to build it.
missions, skrill / combat and trading (?), takes just a small part compared to the time you spent
in designer and mining.

I remember well, how I mined my ash of at starter station and then on to silicon.
upgrading my ship from one extractor to two and refinery, was like my biggest break through, lol.
back then, without automation, the game was a running simulator.