Game is boring - how do you play it?

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

In two playthroughs, game end has been reached around level 13. Once for the Scarlet Chorus path, the second time for the Disfavored. The Scarlet Chorus campaign has been a bit more interesting due to what happens at Lethian's Crossing. The Disfavored campaign hasn't had any surprises in store for me.

At normal difficulty, combat has been dull and very repetitive. In the second playthrough, I've chosen an unarmed caster, have not purchased any skill ranks from trainers, because hiring them only to find that their skill limit is too low, is one of the most boring aspects of this game. And finding trainers with a higher skill limit is like searching for a needle in a haystack. I've had +40 more Lore in the first playthrough for reasons unknown. Maybe because of casting more, but unarmed combat seems efficient.

What to expect from Hard or PotD mode?

How do people reach higher levels?

Would some armored warrior be a better choice for the main character? Barik cannot change his armor equipment, which makes him terribly boring, too. Four items one cannot replace - but may only upgrade them at the Forge.

[Nec]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

In two playthroughs, game end has been reached around level 13. Once for the Scarlet Chorus path, the second time for the Disfavored. The Scarlet Chorus campaign has been a bit more interesting due to what happens at Lethian's Crossing. The Disfavored campaign hasn't had any surprises in store for me.

did u do a ng+ or started over fresh? ng+ can be quite fun with all the skills and (some) items u unlocked prior.

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

... have not purchased any skill ranks from trainers, because hiring them only to find that their skill limit is too low,

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

How do people reach higher levels?

afaik there is no skill "limit" on trainers, at least i have never encountered one. also, u can train 5 points per level on each and every trainer, no matter the ability. xp / cost change, depending on the ability u train in.

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

What to expect from Hard or PotD mode?

tougher enemies, additional use of abilities on their side. only-one-save and perma-death from PotD

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Would some armored warrior be a better choice for the main character? Barik cannot change his armor equipment, which makes him terribly boring, too. Four items one cannot replace - but may only upgrade them at the Forge.

my second ng+ was as dual-wielding warrior. it was fun, but i prefer magic or archery... tho the archery doesnt feel that strong imo.

i'd recommend playing mage in ur second / thirg ng+, when u have enough lore to create powerful spells from the very beginning + having the sigils and their accents helps alot.
trust me on that one, i played a mage in my first and was pissed when i got the best spells ( and enough lore to use them) mostly in the mid-end game.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Nec:

did u do a ng+ or started over fresh? ng+ can be quite fun with all the skills and (some) items u unlocked prior.

I've started from scratch, locking skills early which I would not use.

Originally posted by Nec:

afaik there is no skill "limit" on trainers, at least i have never encountered one.

Believe me, there is a limit. Rhys at the Spire Training Grounds, for example, can only train 50 ranks in Parry, Dodge, Athletics, Lore and Subterfuge. If your base skill ranks are above 50 already, he cannot teach you anything. Other trainers have a limit of 75. Tanara, Phila and Lithos at the Sunset Spire. The Sages are better. Sage Lumosa and Sage Euphera can train 150 ranks of various magic skills.

I've taken notes about those in my first playthrough. There are many more trainers, of course, but their description doesn't tell their limits, only the skills they can train. Quite a pain.

Originally posted by Nec:

i'd recommend playing mage in ur second / thirg ng+, when u have enough lore to create powerful spells from the very beginning + having the sigils and their accents helps alot.
trust me on that one, i played a mage in my first and was pissed when i got the best spells ( and enough lore to use them) mostly in the mid-end game.

My first caster and staff user ended with 174 Lore, and close to the end I pushed him from level 13 to 16 by spending all skill trainer points on random magical Control skills. In the second playthrough I focused on other attributes and different skills. Probably that's why I ended with different values.

[Hawke]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

What to expect from Hard or PotD mode?

On PotD AI focuses on casters (or any low-armor character) and enemies have higher stats. On Hard there's different enemy composition (quality and quantity both).

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

How do people reach higher levels?

By disabling AI and letting party members do nothing.
I reached ~19 lvl on Normal on the 1st PT easily, but I chose the solo path at beginning/middle of Act II.

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Would some armored warrior be a better choice for the main character?

Deflection is preferable to armor on higher difficulties (less incoming damage).

@Nec "Only one save" thing is the Iron Mode, it can be chosen for any difficulty (same for the Expert Mode and NG+).

[swordfish]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

In two playthroughs, game end has been reached around level 13. Once for the Scarlet Chorus path, the second time for the Disfavored. The Scarlet Chorus campaign has been a bit more interesting due to what happens at Lethian's Crossing. The Disfavored campaign hasn't had any surprises in store for me.

At normal difficulty, combat has been dull and very repetitive. In the second playthrough, I've chosen an unarmed caster, have not purchased any skill ranks from trainers, because hiring them only to find that their skill limit is too low, is one of the most boring aspects of this game. And finding trainers with a higher skill limit is like searching for a needle in a haystack. I've had +40 more Lore in the first playthrough for reasons unknown. Maybe because of casting more, but unarmed combat seems efficient.

What to expect from Hard or PotD mode?

How do people reach higher levels?

Would some armored warrior be a better choice for the main character? Barik cannot change his armor equipment, which makes him terribly boring, too. Four items one cannot replace - but may only upgrade them at the Forge.

You are 😂 so funny...u ask noobs questions and then you go to my other thread and try to enlighten me with more questions than answers
I swear you are so funny rpg dude. You are like a plague, I see you in every single rpg's forum

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by snakejishi:

You are 😂 so funny...u ask noobs questions

Which questions are noob questions in this topic?

Originally posted by snakejishi:

and then you go to my other thread and try to enlighten me with more questions than answers
I swear you are so funny rpg dude. You are like a plague, I see you in every single rpg's forum

Begone, hater!

[PlotinusRedux]

When you go to hire trainers at spires, it tells you if they are a skill trainer, master trainer, etc., before you hire them. Of course you could also google to get the list of trainers for each spire type.

I really only train lore, though, even for melee types to self buff, help with healing, etc.--everything else goes up fast enough on its own. For lore, the library trainer will get you through most of the game, but the highest trainer is infirmary (really the only reason to build it).

For leveling, best it to make a mage and use a wide variety of AOE spells with effects--if someone damages the mob you have frozen, you get cold xp. Once you get chaotic descent spells, loop through all 4 types for insane XP.

Also, save up the training points until lore is already pretty high--each training point you spend gets you the XP it would take to take that skill to the next level, so the higher level the skill is already, the more XP spending the training point gets you.

Of course, for real cheese, you can intentionally prolong fights, etc.

Really, min-maxing and worrying about leveling may be what is making the game boring for you--you don't really need to level to win the game, just kick back and enjoy the story, have fun with the choices, etc.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by PlotinusRedux:

When you go to hire trainers at spires, it tells you if they are a skill trainer, master trainer, etc., before you hire them. Of course you could also google to get the list of trainers for each spire type.

Nope. The hiring menu only tells "Name - A skill trainer who teaches <list of skills here>". Nowhere does it tell the skill limit of those trainers. The skill limit is very low in a first playthrough for many trainers, and in a NG+ game, it scales up with party's level, but the limit is still much too low for many trainers. And yes, googling for such details in arbitrary places or the Wiki may lead to something but is no excuse for a boring aspect of this game. Btw, not even the Wiki tells details about the skill trainers. Examples:

http://tyranny.wiki.fextralife.com/Sage+Euphera
http://tyranny.wiki.fextralife.com/Erastus
http://tyranny.wiki.fextralife.com/Lithos
http://tyranny.wiki.fextralife.com/Noxia
--> from http://tyranny.wiki.fextralife.com/Spires

Originally posted by PlotinusRedux:

Really, min-maxing and worrying about leveling may be what is making the game boring for you--you don't really need to level to win the game, just kick back and enjoy the story, have fun with the choices, etc.

I'm on the betrayer path with NG+ and haven't seen many good things so far. One new area I've not had before, Ashweald, where to talk to Bleden Mark. And the scripted encounters that break player's party formation suck a lot.

Combat in Pillars of Eternity is much more entertaining.

[Kernest]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Nope. The hiring menu only tells "Name - A skill trainer who teaches <list of skills here>". Nowhere does it tell the skill limit of those trainers.

Nope. Some specifically state that the person in question is a master trainer, who all AFAIK have a cap of 150 in all the skills they train, in the 1st playthrough.

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

The skill limit is very low in a first playthrough for many trainers, and in a NG+ game, it scales up with party's level, but the limit is still much too low for many trainers.

They're intented to be somewhat low.

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

And yes, googling for such details in arbitrary places or the Wiki may lead to something but is no excuse for a boring aspect of this game. Btw, not even the Wiki tells details about the skill trainers. Examples:

http://tyranny.wiki.fextralife.com/Sage+Euphera
http://tyranny.wiki.fextralife.com/Erastus
http://tyranny.wiki.fextralife.com/Lithos
http://tyranny.wiki.fextralife.com/Noxia
--> from http://tyranny.wiki.fextralife.com/Spires

That wiki tells all the necessary details. For example the description of Erastus in the Spires page is "A master trainer who teaches Control Stone, Control Force, and use of Magic Staff."

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Kernest:

Some specifically state that the person in question is a master trainer, who all AFAIK have a cap of 150 in all the skills they train, in the 1st playthrough.

Where in the game is it explained what a master trainer's skill cap is? I've pointed out the various limits early in this topic:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/362960/discussions/0/2183537632740660623/?tscn=1503593463#c2183537632741295113

One can only find it out by trial-and-error hiring of trainers. I've had 174 Lore in my very first playthrough, which is a base Lore rank above those trainers' limit.

Originally posted by Kernest:

That wiki tells all the necessary details. For example the description of Erastus in the Spires page is "A master trainer who teaches Control Stone, Control Force, and use of Magic Staff."

Where does the Wiki tell the trainer's skill limit? Where does it explain what "a master trainer" is?

[Kernest]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Where in the game is it explained what a master trainer's skill cap is? I've pointed out the various limits early in this topic:

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

One can only find it out by trial-and-error hiring of trainers. I've had 174 Lore in my very first playthrough, which is a base Lore rank above those trainers' limit.

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Where does the Wiki tell the trainer's skill limit? Where does it explain what "a master trainer" is?

Wiki does not state the limit, I told you that.

As I said, the limit is 150 AS FAR AS I KNOW.

The wiki tells you that the trainer is a master trainer.

Common sense should tell you that a master trainer is better than a regular trainer.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Kernest:

Wiki does not state the limit, I told you that.

Why? I've mentioned the various limits early in this topic. The game should display those details somewhere, too, before hiring a trainer. Everything else is lame.

Originally posted by Kernest:

The wiki tells you that the trainer is a master trainer.

Common sense should tell you that a master trainer is better than a regular trainer.

And? 150 is still too low. Why would I hire a "master trainer" then? And what about NG+? The trainer's limits are upscaled by character level. To which limits? Player needs to test it in trial-and-error fashion using a savegame and then create an own personal table.

[Kernest]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Why?

I told you that because I chose, wiki does not tell you that because nobody wrote it there...

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

I've mentioned the various limits early in this topic. The game should display those details somewhere, too, before hiring a trainer. Everything else is lame.

That's like your opinion man. I don't need my hand held that much.

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

And? 150 is still too low. Why would I hire a "master trainer" then?

Last time I checked 150 is roughly twice what 75 is, and three times that of 50, if you can believe it.

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

And what about NG+? The trainer's limits are upscaled by character level. To which limits? Player needs to test it in trial-and-error fashion using a savegame and then create an own personal table.

Or you could try to not train skills that are already past 150...

You're making this out to be much more complicated and bothersome than it actually is, just sayin'.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Kernest:

Last time I checked 150 is roughly twice what 75 is, and three times that of 50, if you can believe it.

And even if the game distinguishes between "trainer" and "master" trainer, it does not tell early what each trainer's skill rank limit is - especially if that limit is affected by level scaling and there are so many trainers. Not displaying it early makes it a boring aspect of this game whether you agree or not. Meta-gaming boreness. Reload, avoid the lousy trainers, and be done.

Originally posted by Kernest:

Or you could try to not train skills that are already past 150...

The problem is not specific to those master trainers. Hiring normal trainers only to find out they aren't skilled enough is boring.

Originally posted by Kernest:

You're making this out to be much more complicated and bothersome than it actually is, just sayin'.

It isn't complicated, it is flat out b-o-r-i-n-g by design. Just like the artificial scarcity of sigil scrolls to control which spell accents and expressions the player may learn in which order.

[Kernest]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

And even if the game distinguishes between "trainer" and "master" trainer,

Not IF. The game distinguishes between trainers and master trainers, you've just not noticed this before.

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

it does not tell early what each trainer's skill rank limit is - especially if that limit is affected by level scaling and there are so many trainers. Not displaying it early makes it a boring aspect of this game whether you agree or not. Meta-gaming boreness. Reload, avoid the lousy trainers, and be done.

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

The problem is not specific to those master trainers. Hiring normal trainers only to find out they aren't skilled enough is boring.

You don't even need to reload the game, you could just dismiss them and lose a bit of money, you are choosing to bore yourself by giving a sh*t about trainers and the money lost hiring them, since the game is 100% playable without using them.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Kernest:

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

And even if the game distinguishes between "trainer" and "master" trainer,

Not IF. The game distinguishes between trainers and master trainers, you've just not noticed this before.

You may replace "if" with "when". It makes no difference. You do understand the meaning of that sentence in the given context, don't you?

Originally posted by Kernest:

You don't even need to reload the game, you could just dismiss them and lose a bit of money, you are choosing to bore yourself by giving a sh*t about trainers and the money lost hiring them, since the game is 100% playable without using them.

Hilarious! Indeed I've had x*5 unspent skill training points during my first playthrough because of this poor feature.

It would have been much better to place the trainers in villages, in camps, in the wilderness and add some conversation and role-playing options. That would have removed one of the game's flaws.