I suck at combat and don't know how to get better.

[max.savenkov]

I hate combat in this game. In fact, I hate all RTwP combat - I hated it in Baldur's Gate, I hated it in PoE and I hate it in Tyranny :( This game would be 1000 times better with good old turn-based battles...

Anyway. Most of my party is getting knocked out almost in every combat that involves 4+ enemies (on Normal), and often I simply can't beat a combat in less than 4-6 tries. And the problem is, I simply do not understand what am I doing wrong. Then suddenly something happens, and I defeat this group of enemies with minor injuries - only to be just as baffled by the next one!

At the start of every combat, a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Outrunner would teleport to my spellcaster and whack him, and then follow him around, not letting him go. But even if I manage to shake him off, I just can't get the grip of what is happening on screen. Why does my characters deal so little damage, while enemies seem to deal more (not much more, but there is more of them, so they win). What tactics are even possible when everyone moves at once and there is no zone-of-control to speak of?!

I found I can deal with large groups of enemis by kiting - because enemy AI is actually stupid, and I can easily peel off one or two enemies and fight them separatedly. This is uber-cheesy, but OK, I'm ready to cheat when I don't enjoy a part of the game. But of course it doesn't work with boss combat when there is nowhere to run, no convenient choke points, no nothing :(

Also, big F**K level designers who place big combats after long dialogues without a chance to save. This is some kindergarten level stupidiy in level design which I hoped the industry outgrew :(

[Kozzy]

"This game would be 1000 times better with good old turn-based battles..."

Everyone has a preference, for me I like all combat pretty evenly if its done well. I LOVE turnbased combat, but I also don't mind if a game liek Baldurs gate or Tyranny or Witcher 3 or Dragon Age Origins have real time or real time with pause.

What I would say is to go to the pause menu and customize the pause times. For me I have it set up so its almost just like a turn based game. It pauses after my guys finish a move, if they get hurt,etc... and I find it alot mroe tactical than just leaving it real time all the time. The Pause menu is there so people can customize things just how they want.

Good luck, I sure am glad I don't have a huge preference for combat in rpgs, sure I woudl give a slight advantage to turn based, but I have also loved many rpgs that have real time with ability to pause or 100% real time combat over the last 25 years of gaming.

[Manimal]

i hated at first too. i just got used to the pause button and now i can obliterate enemy hordes. although i would like the combat in cRPGs to be like dragon age origins more "fast paced" and not so slow

[ChaosRepeated]

It's worth noting that given you hate RTwP combat it does not surprise me that you hate Tyranny's combat system as it is pure RTwP combat.

That said their are multiple reasons to buy a game, tyranny has a great story I assume thats why you got it.

That said it is worth noting that underneath the real time is actually a turn based system.

The trick is frequent pausing, issuing of orders and then unpausing.
The space bar is your friend here.

As for the issues you are having in the combat itself it sounds like your party build is missing battle field control. The old mmorpg party mechanics come into play here.
At the start of the battle, your casters should cast low hate generating spells like defensive spells or crowd control spells like False pit or Unravel minds.
You tank should use a taunt or similar hate generation tool and your high dps off tank should use a high damage ability into the mix to ensure the next character in the hate stack is one which can take a few good hits.

If you lose battlefield control spells like Charged fist, Searing palm and Giant boulder are great for their ability to knock down, back or otherwise stop the mobs from hurting your squishes.
This will help you regain control of the battle and keep your casters clear and the mobs engaged by your tank and melee dps.

Also remember in this game all characters are partial casters so make sure your melee characters have flesh to stone and a heal spell in their spell slots.
The first helps for CC and keeping the mobs on your tank, the second helps recovery when things go wrong.


It is easy to be over whelmed with RTwP systems especially if you are used to turn based combat. The trick is understanding that is basically turned based combat under the surface and you can access that with frequent pauses.

[MrMurLock]

Some tips:
1) Chokepoints. Most maps have some form of chokepoint you can exploit. I run Barik + Verse as my front line and they generally are enough to block a point.
Engagement seems a little more fishy in this game vs PoE so you absolutely need to take advantage of terrain.
Example: During the Ascension Hall fight, you can use the tables or run back to the entrance to form chokepoints.

2) Spells. Spells in tyranny typically deal less damage than one would expect when compared to other games, the main advantage though is that they can repeatedly be used due to relatively short cooldowns. My advice is to get your lore and spell slots as high as you can. Large AoE spells take alot of lore to create and you can cycle through more spells with more spells slots.
Example: My fatebinder is a mage-type and cycles through 3 elemental versions of cones, lines and circles. Once you find the bleeding or ice-fire accents, you'll be surprised at the damage you cause.

3) Formations. You can make custom formations and they absolutely make a difference!
Example: I generally make an inverted Y formation with my tank upfront, flanker/off-tank in the middle and my spellcaster + heals at the far back. The casters in my group needs run up a fair bit before they can join a battle, but this lets the tank get all the attention first.

4) Pauses + Slow speed. Take advantage of the pauses and slow combat speed! Set up your auto-pause feature to work for your playstyle.
Example: I generally auto-pause when an ability is finished, when an enemy is encountered, when hidden objects / traps are found. Otherwise I run the fights on slow speed.

5) Resistance and damage types: If you have the feature enabled, you can see your enemy's resistances and fight based on exploiting their weaknesses. Look through the descriptions and counter appropriately.
Example 1: Certain human enemies have high "Dodge" but low "Parry," therefore I make verse go duel wield on them, if the opposite is true and they have high parry, I go with verse using the bow.
Example 2: Different Banes have immunities to an element but also have a weakness to another. You can exploit this for a 100% increase of damage if you have the appropriate elemental spell OR use ice-fire accent if you have enough lore!

6) Order Queue: Holding down shift lets you queue your orders! Especially effective for buffs and spell cycling.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by max.savenkov:

I hate combat in this game. In fact, I hate all RTwP combat - I hated it in Baldur's Gate, I hated it in PoE and I hate it in Tyranny :( This game would be 1000 times better with good old turn-based battles...

Anyway. Most of my party is getting knocked out almost in every combat that involves 4+ enemies (on Normal), and often I simply can't beat a combat in less than 4-6 tries. And the problem is, I simply do not understand what am I doing wrong. Then suddenly something happens, and I defeat this group of enemies with minor injuries - only to be just as baffled by the next one!

At the start of every combat, a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ed Outrunner would teleport to my spellcaster and whack him, and then follow him around, not letting him go. But even if I manage to shake him off, I just can't get the grip of what is happening on screen. Why does my characters deal so little damage, while enemies seem to deal more (not much more, but there is more of them, so they win). What tactics are even possible when everyone moves at once and there is no zone-of-control to speak of?!

I found I can deal with large groups of enemis by kiting - because enemy AI is actually stupid, and I can easily peel off one or two enemies and fight them separatedly. This is uber-cheesy, but OK, I'm ready to cheat when I don't enjoy a part of the game. But of course it doesn't work with boss combat when there is nowhere to run, no convenient choke points, no nothing :(

Also, big F**K level designers who place big combats after long dialogues without a chance to save. This is some kindergarten level stupidiy in level design which I hoped the industry outgrew :(

Here's a golden tip: use a guy to draw enemy's attention(usually Barik, but necessarily). Position him in the tight spaces(doors, chasms, the like). Take his talents for the engagement limit, clash of iron, 2x strike after CoI and the rest from the damage tree. Give him a 2H. Heal him via a Healer(Lantry, but not necessarily). Profit.

It'll work all the way to Path of the Damned where enemies become kinda suicidal and bum rush your backline. Most of battlefields have some kind of a tightened space-USE IT.

But the awareness is a part of being a good tactician I guess. With proper placement, RTwP won't even matter. Unless PotD, but that is a masochist mode anyhow.

[Frankske]

Some tips:

- Enable the options that auto-pause the game when an enemy is on screen, AND the one that auto-pauses the game when combat starts
- Make sure you have a balanced party. My suggestion is one good tank (Barik), 2 strong DPS-ers (your own character & Verse), and a support character (Lantry). Other companions can also fill these roles, it doesn't have to be these, but i found them the easiest.
- Make a custom formation, and use the entire window where you can customize that formation. Put your tank well at the front, your melee dps'ers a couple of rows behind, and your support/ranged dpsers in the back. That way your tank will initially pull aggro.
- When combat starts, look at what you're facing. Some enemies will be in heavy armor and using a shield. These enemies are low priority - they do little damage, and take little damage. Some enemies will be in heavy armor and using heavy weapons - these are medium priority, they do more damage and take more. Some will be in medium armors and dual wielding. Some are in light armor (robes) and using a staff. For all enemies, the general rule is - the more damage they do, the more damage they take. Kill something high priority immediately at the start of combat. When combat starts, look at which of the enemies is highest priority - a mage, or if no mage, a rogue. While Baric goes to tank the pile of enemies, have your two dpsers run straight at that priority, use your biggest abilities with your two dpsers, and kill it asap.
- Equip a healing spell on ALL your characters. Even characters with low lore can have a basic healing touch spell equiped.
- Pause A LOT during combat. Pausing gives your time to see what's happening, re-prioritize enemies, think for each of your four characters what it needs to do and issue commands.
- Use the vast array of abilities you have, including combo abilities. To increase the amount of abilities your companions have, talk to them and explore their dialogue. While your entire party is selected, there's a "talk" button on their portray. Through dialogue, you can increase their loyalty and/or fear, which gives them access to more abilities - including powerful combo abilities with your main character or even with eachother. If you want, there is an option in the menu you can enable that shows MOST reputation changes that result from dialogue choices. This lets you steer companions in the direction you want their loyalty/fear/renown/.... to grow. The combo between verse and your main character lets you knock down that first priority target so he won't be casting at the start, follow that up with your strongest abilities and it should be dead without having any impact in the fight. The combo between your main and Baric gives Baric an extra taunt, which lets him peel enemies off of your squishies. The combo between your main and Lantry is a strong heal & buff which can apply to your entire party.
- Improve your equipment. If you have a lot of equipment sitting in your bags and you haven't look at it for a while, go over all of it. Higher armor/evasion gear, higher damage weapons, will make fights easier. You can also craft better gear.

[Caelestus]

Max, it sounds like you're giving your enemies "disengagement attacks", which means they get to deal damage your characters without any actual action. Sometimes you just have to withstand the blows. If you have a dedicated healer, make sure he is protected at all cost. If you need, keep the enemy occupied with one of your healthier characters, while the other three focus down a single enemy.

Also, I'm thinking that you allocated your stats incorrectly, because even at PotD, I'm able to wreck the field unarmed without really pausing. Also, remember that you have incredibly powerful combo spells. Main Character and Verse has this ability called "Fury's Wrath?" which gives a circle of constant fire damage, which can melt enemies easily. However, you should only use something like that in dire situations or when completely overwhelmed.

Honestly, re-think your strategy and how you want to defeat your enemies. My party has no tanks, all DPS with healing spells, that happen to have a lot of parry and dodge skill. Even Sirin is tough to take down, especially with her shield. The idea behind my party is to drop my enemies as soon as possible, and provide enough heals to keep my relatively fragile (260 health level 16) characters alive.

Here's a tip, engage enemies from stealth. Gives you a casting advantage.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by max.savenkov:

Anyway. Most of my party is getting knocked out almost in every combat that involves 4+ enemies (on Normal), and often I simply can't beat a combat in less than 4-6 tries. And the problem is, I simply do not understand what am I doing wrong. Then suddenly something happens, and I defeat this group of enemies with minor injuries - only to be just as baffled by the next one!

At the start of every combat, a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ed Outrunner would teleport to my spellcaster and whack him, and then follow him around, not letting him go. But even if I manage to shake him off, I just can't get the grip of what is happening on screen. Why does my characters deal so little damage, while enemies seem to deal more (not much more, but there is more of them, so they win). What tactics are even possible when everyone moves at once and there is no zone-of-control to speak of?!:(

OK, first thing to realise is thhat in this game you cannot use the normal basic tactic of having a tankky front line protecting your squishy casters like Lantry - it just doesn't work and it is not how this game is supposed to be played. The pain you are feeling is deliberatly put there so that you realise this sooner rather thhan later and either experiment or ask question, like ytou are doing, as to what you should be doing - whichh is in this game every character has to be survivable in their own right.

The good news is that with a maybe a restart and the application of just a few changes to approach you will very quickkly trransform your combat abilities and make noprmal fine. One thhing I would consider is if you are not playing a mage, I would play a mage becasue with two high level casters you will find it much easier to kill enemies becasue espcially in the early game melee weapons and bows are distinctly meh in terms of damage output.

I would give you rules for starters:

1. Everyone is a mage in this game. Verse and Barik start with two spell slots. You can give them a heal spell and Spectral Blur with which they can heal themselves and buff themselves for much higher survivability. Get the extra party spell slots from the Leadership tree and this will give them two extra slots for more self-buffs. They don't need wits or anything becasue you don't need accuracy to cast on yourself and they will get enough Lore naturally. Most important buy and find every Sigil you can lay your hands on in the early game so you can make these spells.

2. Put Lantry in the heaviest armour you can find, mage or no mage. Thhee enemy AI is not programmed to kill Lantry, it is programmed to kill enemies that have the lightest armour (so they can kill them easily) and also represent danger (which Lantry does beecasue he is a dangerous caster). They will be less focussed on Lantry in heacy armour but more importantly he will be much more difficult to kill.

3. The most important statistic for any weapon or offensive ability is armour penetration. Whenever you see something, in a shop whatever, that has better AP than what you've got, grab and equip it pronto. The reason is that enemy armour is simply deducted from your damage so armour penetration is simply adding to your damage.

4. Your casters have got to stand up against the enemy and mow them down with primarily cone AoE spells, running for cover doesn't work. Doing this they become your primary damage dealers. For this reason identify where your extra spell slots come from in the ability trees and beeline those abilities: more spell slots = more casts = faster enemy eradication. It is also why I recommend playing a mage yourself so you and Lantry can stand together right up against a bunch of enemies and blast them to kingdom come withh frost, lightening maybe fire cone AoE spells. This is also why you go lookking for every singlew sigil scoll you can lay your hands on and why you upgrade your spells regularly and whhy you train in Lore. If you want to know what to go for when leveling up mages it's simple: Lore and slots, then more lore and slots.

Also for mages Quickneess first then Wits.

Doing this will enable you laugh in the facee of those peskky Outriders streaking at Lantry becasue he and you will be able to destroy them before they've hardly scratched you on normal difficulty. I promise, and there's an aweful lot more to learn about combat in this game as well, but this should get you started.

Good luck.

[wolfmaster]

Most already suggested auto-pause. If i may add, check also the option to auto-slow combat. That will make combat more manageable.

Now, when combat starts, make barik or any tank character engage any charging enemy/ies. Then have ranged characters (verse can use a bow, lantry a thrown dagger), target enemy archers/javelin throwers/mages with damage-dealing abilities or control or debuffs. These enemy types pose a bigger threat of messing up your party. Once these ranged enemies are gone, your ranged characters can now focus on melee enemies.

[Lightning]

Yeah the people that play on PoTD auto pause almost every second of the fight, I'm not that skilled so I just stick to hard

[max.savenkov]

Thank you, everyone. I'm enabled all auto-pause options I think I need from the very start, so that's not a problem. I think my main problem with RTwP is lack of immediate feedback on my actions. For example, in TB combat, I'd click on attack an enemy and instantly see how much damage my character dealt, and can infer this enemy's resistances etc., but when everyone is attacking at once, this information gets lost for me in the sea of floating numbers and pages of combat log. Hm, maybe I should enable auto-pause on every attack? But that would make combat super-slow when I don't need it...

My main character is a mage, so my party is close to one described above (my mage, Verse, Barik, Lantry), but I think I might have been allocating points wrongly when leveling (it's not exactly obvious).

I have a number of AOE spells, but I don't feel like they make any difference, their damage is so low! Also, their range requires mage to come a bit too close to the fight for my liking, especially when I want to hit enemy archers/mages, which I'm used to see as a priority.

I also wonder if I haven't looked at shops properly, because some of my characters (Verse, Lantry) still have their starting weapons. But I don't remembering seeing anything noticeably better in any shop (this being the first location). I picked a nice staff for my mage and an axe for Barik with 6 armor penetration from stashes or enemies, but the rest of the part wasn't so lucky...

I'm currently stuck in fight under spires, and it's a nasty one - a round location with no choke points, AND the game grabs you and hauls you into the center of it for a dialogue.

[Geeves]

In the beginning of the game focus more on single target spells that have secondary effects (lightning has a decent stun, Frost can freeze, and fire is good for straight damage). You don't have the lore yet to get any meaningful damage from AoE's. Even the frost cone spell is better vs a single enemy until you can add frostfire to it.

When you get engaged, don't run around like a headless chicken. Stand still and hit them with something that incapacitates them - anything with a knockdown, stun, petrify, or paralysis effect. Only then should you back away from them and engage them with your tank or taunt them.

There is no need to "infer" enemy resistances. You have the %chance to hit on the tooltip right next to your cursor whenever you mouse over an enemy to attack. Just hit pause and mouse over all of the enemies (with your chosen attack/spell selected). If your chance to hit is too low, either use a different attack/spell, or attack someone else. Their resistances are also displayed quite plainly on the bar at the middle bottom of the screen when you mouse over someone (right-click the enemy to make it stay so that you can mouse over each icon in that bar to see exactly what it is)

For mages - I find it best to max Quickness asap. This lets you stunlock with ease (who cares about your damage output when they can't fight back?). After that pump Wits to increase damage. Then pump both resolve and finesse as needed. You can safely leave vitality and might at 8/10.

Do NOT bother equipping staves on mages. Staves are complete garbage. Go with sword and shield or a throwing weapon + shield.

It's your choice if you want to deck out your mages with heavy armor or not, but keep in mind that going heavy armor completely destroys your ability to chaingun spells. Heavy armor helps your mage, but hinders your group as you can't spam spells nearly as quickly. Your best defense is a constant stream of lightning bolts/false pits/gravegrasps/FtS to the enemies face.

Also, you can and should pre-buff before difficult fights. The game pauses for dialogue, so you should be able to start those fights fully buffed and ready to go. Just keep in mind that the durations are short enough that you can only get one or two rounds of buffs in. Any more than that and the first buffs will wear off shortly after combat starts.