Still not worth 20

[Jaegeras]

My previous thread was pounced on by fanboys because I disagreed with it's pricing before being deleted by censorship. I don't feel it's worth $20, still. To me, it's still a repaint and still missing levels. Now, I know the same people may come on this thread and use the "counter strike/team fortress 2 mod" argument.

But let me tell you something. Counter Strike, evolved. It went from Half-Life: Counter Strike ---> Counter Strike 1.6 ---> Counter Strike: Source ---> Counter Strike: Global Offensive.

Team Fortress Classic ---> Team Fortress 2.

The point of the matter isn't because they started as mods and that they were from other people. They were from people within Valve themselves. The point is, they evolved from being mods into complete standalone games themselves. Same premise but totally and completely different overhauls that separated itself from it's mod days.

Black Mesa, whether you accept it or not, is still a repaint of HL1. It is not standalone enough to be labeled as so, because it still is just improving things from the free mod. How can you call it standalone? The developers of Black Mesa did not originally make HL1, Valve did. So, how can you sit there and call it a standalone based on this alone?

What made it "standalone" to you, was how it was updated and upgraded from the free mod. Sorry, but, it doesn't count. I have No More Room in Hell, which WAS a mod of HL2, it did evolve into it's own game as we see/ If Black Mesa wanted to be standalone, it would have to figure out a way to differentiate itself in some form from the source material.

Some of you called me a cheapskate in various forms because supposedly I said it should be "free". Um, no, I never said that in the original thread. I suggested it would be $5 at best. $20, to me, is just a quick money grab from those impatient from waiting on a HL3.

I expect the same people or more people to come on this thread later and bombard it with typical internet insults and memes. Instead of, actual mature disagreements. When, all I have to say in advance is that, you're just willingly throwing $20 on an early access title that's simply a repaint. That to me, is reckless spending and has nothing to do about whether it's affordable or not.

[MyBooMStick]

open Fire on this Troll

[Dirhoun]

Uh, no. It's not just a "re-paint" of Half Life. They had to make everything from scratch and still haven't even finished Xen, which I assume will be a HUGE addition to the game considering how long they're taking to make it. The original Half Life is $10, and you think $5 is a reasonable price for it? Black Mesa isn't Half Life: Source. They took the time to make this game and did such a great job with it.

[Jaegeras]

Originally posted by RΞV A SuperBooM:

open Fire on this Troll

Yup. I'm a troll because I disagree with the majority. Totally the mature way to handle things.

[Jaegeras]

Originally posted by Mormon Jesus:

Uh, no. It's not just a "re-paint" of Half Life. They had to make everything from scratch and still haven't even finished Xen, which I assume will be a HUGE addition to the game considering how long they're taking to make it. The original Half Life is $10, and you think $5 is a reasonable price for it? Black Mesa isn't Half Life: Source. They took the time to make this game and did such a great job with it.

You're making it sound like Black Mesa is an entirely different game, when it's based off of another game. It's not. Were the devs making Black Mesa there when HL1 was being made? Were any of them involved? No, they weren't. Yes, Half-Life 1 is $10, but I don't see how that's a justification for a repaint based off of it to be $20. Black Mesa doesn't differentiate itself enough from it's source material. It's just an upgrade and no more than that.

[Just Chill]

Originally posted by Soulicyde:

Still not worth 20

If that's your opinion, I can live with that.

But that nonsense about standalones is very weird.
May you google what the word "standalone" means?

Originally posted by Soulicyde:

How can you call it standalone?

Black Mesa Source mod - Requirements:
- Steam client
- Source SDK Base 2007

Black Mesa retail version - Requirements:
- Steam client

[An Irate Walrus]

Originally posted by Soulicyde:

Originally posted by RΞV A SuperBooM:

open Fire on this Troll

Yup. I'm a troll because I disagree with the majority. Totally the mature way to handle things.

It's not really your disagreement that's causing people to label you as a troll; it's that you've chosen to come into a forum specifically designated for Black Mesa to essentially say, "I do not intend to purchase this product at this price point, therefore NO ONE should purchase this product at this price point."

It's a fine thing to have your own point of view, value system, and general guidelines for what you will/will not spend money on--but you've absolutely chosen the wrong audience to air your grievances to; most of the folks in this forum own the game, and have either backed the project from its infancy, or are longtime Half-Life fans.

You're knowingly engaging with an audience that is likely to be hostile to your views, and you feign surprise when that hostility rears its head. You are either lacking in awareness of the audience/message relationship you've created here, or you're deliberately stirring the pot.

Option one means you probably need to take a Rhet/Comp or Public Speaking course.

Option two means you're a troll.

[JocularJosh]

Oh hey, it's this guy again. Now before i start answer this:
Why did you just had to make another thread?
Every sane person would have stopped after what happened to the last thread.
Another Question, please answer that as well, would you:
Why are you even here?
You told us multiple times by now that you won't buy this game. You told us multiple times why 20 bucks is too expensive for this game. You gave us your own Definition of the words "standalone" and "mod". Basically you just made them up and you are still doing that as I see.
After you answer those questions you may proceed.

First, this is a standalone game. That's a fact. It does not require a base game nor anything else. You can buy it, download it and enjoy it. That's it.
A mod requires a base game or the assets of another game. You can't play a mod just right off the bat, no, you need another game for that. Also a fact.
There you go, these are the actual definitions of those words. In your opinion this is just still a mod. So in your opinion games like Metro Redux, The Last of us Remastered are just mods as well? You are wrong then too.
Now you better stop talking about being mature, i see your post history buddy, you have no right to call someone being immature while you are childish yourself. A mature person wouldn't have made another thread after another to start a flame war. You are doing that right now. You just know that people are going to comment who are still pissed at you for what you did in your last thread.
In the last thread you also mentioned how we are all paying for a mod and how wrong that it. We just showed you that you own paid mods as well, after that you denied everything and stopped commenting after a while too. You gave up, you realized that you wrote some serious ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in your last thread...no.
Here you are again. Trying to proof...what exactly? We can spend our money on what we want, when we want. We don't need you judging everyone that bought the game. You own paid mods, you are just like everyone here that paid for this standalone game.
No one here can say something that is going to change your mind. You won't spend 20 bucks on this game and that is fine, there are many people out there who think the way you do and there is nothing wrong with that. However going to the forum and making multiple threads basically just bashing the game and everyone who bought it is childish and not understandable at all.
Now, i just know that you are going to disagree with me, fine. I just hope you can find your peace here and move on with your Life. I hope that this is the last thread of yours, i mean, making the same topic multiple times is considered spamming the forum, especially since the other threads were filled with insults.

[JocularJosh]

Originally posted by Soulicyde:

Originally posted by RΞV A SuperBooM:

open Fire on this Troll

Yup. I'm a troll because I disagree with the majority. Totally the mature way to handle things.

So making multiple threads about the same topic is mature? Just look at your post history, you are far from being a mature person.

[Jaegeras]

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

Originally posted by Soulicyde:

Yup. I'm a troll because I disagree with the majority. Totally the mature way to handle things.

It's not really your disagreement that's causing people to label you as a troll; it's that you've chosen to come into a forum specifically designated for Black Mesa to essentially say, "I do not intend to purchase this product at this price point, therefore NO ONE should purchase this product at this price point."

It's a fine thing to have your own point of view, value system, and general guidelines for what you will/will not spend money on--but you've absolutely chosen the wrong audience to air your grievances to; most of the folks in this forum own the game, and have either backed the project from its infancy, or are longtime Half-Life fans.

You're knowingly engaging with an audience that is likely to be hostile to your views, and you feign surprise when that hostility rears its head. You are either lacking in awareness of the audience/message relationship you've created here, or you're deliberately stirring the pot.

Option one means you probably need to take a Rhet/Comp or Public Speaking course.

Option two means you're a troll.

I don't really care if people are spending this money on the game. What does make my opinions twitch is how people have propped this game up as if it's totally an original idea. That justifies their reason of buying it when it's just an upgraded repaint. If people wanna spend $20 recklessly on early-access games like this, fine.

I've already saw that before coming to this board. But the difference is, I've followed the game too, I've played the mod and beaten it. So, I do feel I have some part in posting here than I would had I not played the mod at all. That's the difference.

I'm open for mature disagreements, but that's wishful thinking. Inappropriate behavior is what got me banned from this board for about a week, which can be disputed considering the type of posts made on the other thread I've made before it's deletion. But I digress...

[An Irate Walrus]

Originally posted by RacistCoffee:

Originally posted by Soulicyde:

Yup. I'm a troll because I disagree with the majority. Totally the mature way to handle things.

So making multiple threads about the same topic is mature? Just look at your post history, you are far from being a mature person.

I imagine he's operating under the axiom of: "If you repeat something often enough, eventually others will accept it as truth."

The thing about repetition in the face of serious opposition is that you've got to have very solid evidence to stand on in the first place--and apart from a baseline argument concerning aesthetics, the OP seems to have a tenuous grasp on the difference between mods and remakes, the definition of "standalone" products, and why arguing from a position of hypocrisy (owning the same type of material he's lambasting here) will always be the equivalent of building a castle on a foundation of sand.

[Jaegeras]

Originally posted by RacistCoffee:

Oh hey, it's this guy again. Now before i start answer this:
Why did you just had to make another thread?
Every sane person would have stopped after what happened to the last thread.
Another Question, please answer that as well, would you:
Why are you even here?
You told us multiple times by now that you won't buy this game. You told us multiple times why 20 bucks is too expensive for this game. You gave us your own Definition of the words "standalone" and "mod". Basically you just made them up and you are still doing that as I see.
After you answer those questions you may proceed.

First, this is a standalone game. That's a fact. It does not require a base game nor anything else. You can buy it, download it and enjoy it. That's it.
A mod requires a base game or the assets of another game. You can't play a mod just right off the bat, no, you need another game for that. Also a fact.
There you go, these are the actual definitions of those words. In your opinion this is just still a mod. So in your opinion games like Metro Redux, The Last of us Remastered are just mods as well? You are wrong then too.
Now you better stop talking about being mature, i see your post history buddy, you have no right to call someone being immature while you are childish yourself. A mature person wouldn't have made another thread after another to start a flame war. You are doing that right now. You just know that people are going to comment who are still pissed at you for what you did in your last thread.
In the last thread you also mentioned how we are all paying for a mod and how wrong that it. We just showed you that you own paid mods as well, after that you denied everything and stopped commenting after a while too. You gave up, you realized that you wrote some serious ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in your last thread...no.
Here you are again. Trying to proof...what exactly? We can spend our money on what we want, when we want. We don't need you judging everyone that bought the game. You own paid mods, you are just like everyone here that paid for this standalone game.
No one here can say something that is going to change your mind. You won't spend 20 bucks on this game and that is fine, there are many people out there who think the way you do and there is nothing wrong with that. However going to the forum and making multiple threads basically just bashing the game and everyone who bought it is childish and not understandable at all.
Now, i just know that you are going to disagree with me, fine. I just hope you can find your peace here and move on with your Life. I hope that this is the last thread of yours, i mean, making the same topic multiple times is considered spamming the forum, especially since the other threads were filled with insults.

It's because of people like you in the last thread that blatantly decided to troll reply that thread and this one too. You're not any better or different.

You have your own point of views, but I'm just saying you're a complete hypocrite. I've seen you bounce on threads trying to derail those who think differently than the majority. This thread included.

[Jaegeras]

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

Originally posted by RacistCoffee:

So making multiple threads about the same topic is mature? Just look at your post history, you are far from being a mature person.

I imagine he's operating under the axiom of: "If you repeat something often enough, eventually others will accept it as truth."

The thing about repetition in the face of serious opposition is that you've got to have very solid evidence to stand on in the first place--and apart from a baseline argument concerning aesthetics, the OP seems to have a tenuous grasp on the difference between mods and remakes, the definition of "standalone" products, and why arguing from a position of hypocrisy (owning the same type of material he's lambasting here) will always be the equivalent of building a castle on a foundation of sand.

Oh and as the people on here replying in some form of hostility expect a change of view if they are harsh enough? That "oh hey, if we keep sticking it to him, he'll think otherwise and join the team!" pffft....

[Just Chill]

Originally posted by Soulicyde:

how people have propped this game up as if it's totally an original idea.

Who did that?
I've said it's a remake and a good one therefore it's worth 20 bucks from my side :)
Especially when it's done

Making remakes isn't an original idea, but making good remakes is of course entertaining.

[JocularJosh]

Originally posted by Soulicyde:

Originally posted by RacistCoffee:

Oh hey, it's this guy again. Now before i start answer this:
Why did you just had to make another thread?
Every sane person would have stopped after what happened to the last thread.
Another Question, please answer that as well, would you:
Why are you even here?
You told us multiple times by now that you won't buy this game. You told us multiple times why 20 bucks is too expensive for this game. You gave us your own Definition of the words "standalone" and "mod". Basically you just made them up and you are still doing that as I see.
After you answer those questions you may proceed.

First, this is a standalone game. That's a fact. It does not require a base game nor anything else. You can buy it, download it and enjoy it. That's it.
A mod requires a base game or the assets of another game. You can't play a mod just right off the bat, no, you need another game for that. Also a fact.
There you go, these are the actual definitions of those words. In your opinion this is just still a mod. So in your opinion games like Metro Redux, The Last of us Remastered are just mods as well? You are wrong then too.
Now you better stop talking about being mature, i see your post history buddy, you have no right to call someone being immature while you are childish yourself. A mature person wouldn't have made another thread after another to start a flame war. You are doing that right now. You just know that people are going to comment who are still pissed at you for what you did in your last thread.
In the last thread you also mentioned how we are all paying for a mod and how wrong that it. We just showed you that you own paid mods as well, after that you denied everything and stopped commenting after a while too. You gave up, you realized that you wrote some serious ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in your last thread...no.
Here you are again. Trying to proof...what exactly? We can spend our money on what we want, when we want. We don't need you judging everyone that bought the game. You own paid mods, you are just like everyone here that paid for this standalone game.
No one here can say something that is going to change your mind. You won't spend 20 bucks on this game and that is fine, there are many people out there who think the way you do and there is nothing wrong with that. However going to the forum and making multiple threads basically just bashing the game and everyone who bought it is childish and not understandable at all.
Now, i just know that you are going to disagree with me, fine. I just hope you can find your peace here and move on with your Life. I hope that this is the last thread of yours, i mean, making the same topic multiple times is considered spamming the forum, especially since the other threads were filled with insults.

It's because of people like you in the last thread that blatantly decided to troll reply that thread and this one too. You're not any better or different.

You have your own point of views, but I'm just saying you're a complete hypocrite. I've seen you bounce on threads trying to derail those who think differently than the majority. This thread included.

See, this right here is your problem. You didn't even read my comment, no. I actually delivered some good, valid points to this discussion but you call me a troll right off the bad. There goes your "mature" discussion. They should just look this thread as soon as possible and ban you again. You are starting a flame war again, my friend, this is your fault all over again and i am already sick of it.

[An Irate Walrus]

Originally posted by Soulicyde:

I don't really care if people are spending this money on the game. What does make my opinions twitch is how people have propped this game up as if it's totally an original idea. That justifies their reason of buying it when it's just an upgraded repaint. If people wanna spend $20 recklessly on early-access games like this, fine.

I've already saw that before coming to this board. But the difference is, I've followed the game too, I've played the mod and beaten it. So, I do feel I have some part in posting here than I would had I not played the mod at all. That's the difference.

I'm open for mature disagreements, but that's wishful thinking. Inappropriate behavior is what got me banned from this board for about a week, which can be disputed considering the type of posts made on the other thread I've made before it's deletion. But I digress...

Your first paragraph is contradicted not only by what you've already said in this thread (in your OP), but by the fact that this is evidently the second (and possibly third) thread you've made on the topic. If you didn't care about the price point or about what others chose to spend their money on, I very much doubt you'd continue pushing an argument that, on its face, is flawed.

...unless, of course, you enjoy agitating fans of the game for your personal amusement--which leads us back to the whole "troll" bit.

As for whether or not the idea is original--I don't think anyone in their right mind believes that Black Mesa is "original" in terms of its content. It is a complete overhaul and restructure of Half-Life 1; if anyone's seriously denying that basic fact, then they clearly have concerns relative to their grip on reality, and you probably shouldn't be arguing with them in the first place. Even if this -were- the case, the fact is that there really isn't anything new under the sun when it comes to entertainment products; James Cameron's "Avatar" was lauded as a work of creative genius--boiled down to its base elements, it was just "Dances With Wolves" in space with giant Smurfs in place of Native Americans (and the Smurfs weren't even very cleverly disguised) and Space Marines in place of American settlers rapidly and rapaciously taking land from the native inhabitants.

I mean, they even called the element they were looking for "unobtanium" (personally, I would've gone with "hardtofindium," or "can'tgetitum," or, "weranoutofideasium").

All of that said, "Avatar" did business like gangbusters, because people are going to like what they're going to like, irrespective of Comic Book Shop Guy-style, "Worst X EVER," complaints; they do you no good, and reveal only a, "People should stop liking stuff I don't like," attitude.

Having played the mod is all fine and well, but that doesn't really give you license to complain about others purchasing the game; if you don't find it worth twenty bucks, then don't spend twenty bucks on it, and get on with your life. Being "open to mature disagreement" notwithstanding, in a Capitalist environment, the only vote that matters is the one you cast with your wallet; so don't buy the product, and hope more people feel as you do than do not--if the product fails commercially, the team that worked on it will either have to shift gears or leave the business altogether, and you'll have won.

If the majority disagrees with you, then you will simply have to cede this individual battle to the vagaries of a free market economy.

As for myself, I'm enjoying the hell out of it, and find it well worth the twenty bucks I spent on it; my economic vote is cast. You've cast yours. Now we await the results; campaigning at the election point is just bad form, and smacks of sour grapes.