Damn that Apache at the dam

[Oimatex]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to have noticed how difficult (Even on Normal difficulty) it is to shoot down that apache when you get to the dam.

I've tried all sorts of ruses and bug exploits to get passed it without losing all my HEV suit energy as well as all my health. (I managed to shoot it down twice with 34% hp and 13% hp left and proceeded to die to the fishes because the crossbow shoots too slowly and each fish needs 3 bolts to die)

Another thing to note is the terrible and minuscule hitbox of the chopper. Add the terrible accuracy of the Tau gun (I either missed a rocket launcher or you're really supposed to use the Tau), add blazing speed to the chopper and dead on accuracy of it's .50 cal and I highly doubt many players trying to play casually on normal have passed the encounter without cheating.

The remake is great don't get me wrong, I'm just bummed that I'm probably going to resolve to cheating to progress through that scene so that I can continue the game with normal health, armor and ammo...

I understand the game is early access and that's why I'm taking the time to write this here.

Quick summary:

-Fix Chopper hitbox
-Reduce chopper's gun fire rate
-Reduce chopper's gun accuracy (this one really makes it hard to get even tradeoffs)
-Fix Tau gun's accuracy



Hope everyone contributes positively to the thread

[Keltur]

I *think* a problem that exists with the Tau against the Apache--if I'm not mistaken, and it happens in the mod version too--is that shots from the Tau will actually reflect off the Apache if it hits a side of the chopper at a relatively indirect angle. And it won't do damage when it does that.

I'm not 100% certain that's the case, but I feel like I've had that happen to me often in the mod, and now the same in the retail version. If it really is happening, I doubt it's intended for reflected Tau shots to do 0 damage to an Apache.

Regardless, I agree about the difficulty of the dam Apache; it's now way more difficult to fight than it was in the mod. I appreciate that it does seem to be more intelligent, but you can't really walk out into the open easily at all without your face being shot off.

[Oimatex]

Wow I actually managed to kill it in a few tries, the best way I found was to shoot the two soldiers and than to just wait in the garage for the Apache to come over and stop shooting, than with the Tau shoot at the base of the rotor, honestly it's hard but if you save your game ready for the fight you will get the hang of it eventually.

[J o n e x]

However low your health gets, there are always plenty of health packs and energy packs around the next corner. For that chopper fight in particular there are several health packs nearby. The guard hut has two, generator building has a few in boxes, and the tower in the water has a couple as well. You just have to time your attacks in between the chopper's attacks and use the generator building for cover. Also charge your Tau cannon and make sure the chopper is nice and close when you choose to take your shots.

An overpowered Apache would have the ability to destroy every piece of cover you find, which thankfully isn't the case in Black Mesa :P

[Skirmish]

I think there are a couple of issues in the game that need rebalancing. The helicopter is one. The others are the two confrontations with the assassins.

The second confrontation with them in the large container depot was just mad. From the small corridor I ran out to trigger them, then ran back into the corridor. Their gunfire was incessant and indescriminate, they were even shooting at the closed door. When I opened it, they all just literally launched themselves at me in the doorway. As I shot them, they all ended up in a big pile by the door. The whole thing lasted for about 10 seconds!

Meanwhile, with the dam 'copter, I ended up crouched behind an ammo box (I think it was) by the hangar doorway next to the health station. I gave myself the smallest gap to shoot the 'copter with the Tau gun.

Compare that with some of the large open areas with the grunts and tanks that should have been so much harder than they were.

The games not perfect, but hey, that's what Early Access is for, right? Fantastic job otherwise.

[Alcator]

That particular fight was nearly impossible in a 2.0 speaker/headset, because there was no way to localize the chopper accoustically. So, I was essentially stepping outside the hangar without knowing which direction to look at, and suddenly started taking fire from some random direction.

Furthermore, it seems like the bullets from the chopper are able to go through the walls, which is highly annoying, especially since the game doesn't visually indicate that this is, indeed, the case - there are no bullet holes in the places where the bullets flew through the wall, only the "traces" through air and the hits are shown.

Final remark to the Dam fight: The Tau fire seems to ricochet not only off the chopper (that would be, with good hitboxes, actually quite cool), but it visibly ricochets from the rocks BEHIND the opposite end of the dam, revealing that the skybox is very close.

[DIGITAL SPORTS]

The Apache's hitbox is bugged or something, we've been debugging it. It makes it very hard to hit with the RPG too.

I am also rebalancing the Apache to have a greater rest period between bursts, and shorter bursts, so it's a bit easier to confront.

As for the Assassins, they too are bugged. Turns out they were drawing damage from our generic NPC_Glock weapon instead of from their own specialised damage convar. We set the NPC_Glock to do 12 damage as it's what the Guard uses, and we wanted to make him more useful, but this had the unintended (and undiscovered, until release) side effect of making the assassins really overpowered. In the next patch this is fixed, and the Assassins now do 6 damage per shot, instead of 12.

[Phantron]

Isn't the assassins AI completely different and worse than in the mod?
Funny enough, I didn't have problems with either chopper fights.

[matthew]

I had issues with both Apache fights, more with the first, it took me ages to bring the thing down, as for the second, I also had issues with hitting it with the RPG, and yes the assassins were also very OP, so good to hear that both Apache and assassins are getting fixed.

[o]

use the tau gun overcharge :D

also carrying the rare specimen past the dam now that was hard to figure out :P

[Alcator]

It's perhaps more about how well they know where you are. The assassins basically always know where you are, they can find you anywhere, and when you get out of cover, they immediately start shooting.

In most games, when an enemy kills you, you learn very quickly what you were doing wrong, and can, within few attempts, discover the right strategy. Here, I was dying over and over without so much as a clue to what I was doing wrong.

[DIGITAL SPORTS]

Originally posted by Alcator:

It's perhaps more about how well they know where you are. The assassins basically always know where you are, they can find you anywhere, and when you get out of cover, they immediately start shooting.

In most games, when an enemy kills you, you learn very quickly what you were doing wrong, and can, within few attempts, discover the right strategy. Here, I was dying over and over without so much as a clue to what I was doing wrong.

Their damage is bugged, and is around 2x higher than it's meant to be. It will be fixed in the next patch.

[Alcator]

Originally posted by BMS Chon Kemp:

Originally posted by Alcator:

It's perhaps more about how well they know where you are. The assassins basically always know where you are, they can find you anywhere, and when you get out of cover, they immediately start shooting.

In most games, when an enemy kills you, you learn very quickly what you were doing wrong, and can, within few attempts, discover the right strategy. Here, I was dying over and over without so much as a clue to what I was doing wrong.

Their damage is bugged, and is around 2x higher than it's meant to be. It will be fixed in the next patch.

Fair enough, I already saw that, but it doesn't change the fundamental problem that they are an enemy that
a) seemingly always knows where you are
b) can move very fast
c) have very high accuracy
d) have very high rate of fire
and there don't appear to be any environmental things that could help with them.

What if a player enters the location with 50% of health and no armour? How does a player like that get through? And more importantly: Which "hints" should the player notice to find the answer?

[Kizna Fuchs]

Originally posted by Alcator:

Originally posted by BMS Chon Kemp:

Their damage is bugged, and is around 2x higher than it's meant to be. It will be fixed in the next patch.

Fair enough, I already saw that, but it doesn't change the fundamental problem that they are an enemy that
a) seemingly always knows where you are
b) can move very fast
c) have very high accuracy
d) have very high rate of fire
and there don't appear to be any environmental things that could help with them.

What if a player enters the location with 50% of health and no armour? How does a player like that get through? And more importantly: Which "hints" should the player notice to find the answer?

There is a very good answer to the Assasins, since 1998: Grenade the ♥♥♥♥ out of them. xD

Cuz, except for the higher dmg right now, they are pretty much like the Original HL Assasins.

[Phantron]

No, they're not. They keep standing in one spot each and shooting you, even if they're getting shot at. The mod AI was pretty much perfect, now they're kinda ruined.

[DIGITAL SPORTS]

Originally posted by Phantron:

No, they're not. They keep standing in one spot each and shooting you, even if they're getting shot at. The mod AI was pretty much perfect, now they're kinda ruined.

Their AI hasn't been altered, you're just seeing changes where you think. The only thing which is different is the damage.