Xen level drags on too long? or just me?

[SNAKE †]

Anyone else feel like the Xen level just feels too long? that being said I havn't played the original in a very long time and even has a kid I used to stop playing once I got to the Xen part.

[Hung Daddy]

Kind of but at least it's more bang for your buck

[fuegerstef]

Xen (the first part of Xen) is OK. Gonarch too. But Interloper (the last part of Xen before the Nihilanth) is much too long, IMHO.

[Malidictus]

Black Mesa's Xen is SUBSTANTIALLY longer than Half-Life's Xen. I'd argue it's easily longer than half the entire rest of the game, close to 3/4 if you discount On a Rail: Uncut. With that said... I personally thought Black Mesa did a really good job of it, especially the way it's segmented. You have your opening section which goes through an island that's a mix of wilderness and human camps, then you go through Gonarch's Lair which is predominantly caves and weird alien fauna, then you have a seemingly never-ending collection of alien factories in Interloper.

If anything, I'd argue it's Interloper which drags on and on. It's padded with a lot of pointless walking simulator sections, seemingly always revolving around following a stream. There are usually no enemies in these sections, there are usually no puzzles and there's no complex terrain. You just walk and walk until the next meaningful location. A lot of needless crawling through sewers, as well. The Gargantua Lair also seems entirely superfluous. It comes out of nowhere, you run around for a bit, then go back to the factory.

Personally, I feel like Intrloper could be tightened up quite a bit by cutting out the walking section and the Gargantua lair entirely and sticking predominantly to factories. Or rather, "could have been" since I don't expect shipped content to be cut at this stage. I think the best you can do if you're getting bored is try to identify the walking simulator sections and just run through them. Almost none of them have hidden items or side paths to find, so trying to explore them is pointless.

[placerej]

Yeah, it's too long. I'm not even enjoying it all that much right now, a fair bit into the Interloper chapter. I loved the first Xen chapter, but was tired of the drag already in the lair chapter. Just want the game to be over now. The same gimmick over and over just isn't fun. It just feels like it's long just to be long, not because there is a need for it.

[SNAKE †]

Originally posted by placerej:

Yeah, it's too long. I'm not even enjoying it all that much right now, a fair bit into the Interloper chapter. I loved the first Xen chapter, but was tired of the drag already in the lair chapter. Just want the game to be over now. The same gimmick over and over just isn't fun. It just feels like it's long just to be long, not because there is a need for it.

They went overboard on the length of the xen bit I think, there was so many moments where I was thinking what's the point of this part? like with the vortigaunts and the plug "puzzles".

[ChalkLine]

I think the problem with Xen is they use essentially three or so elements over and over. The plugs, the red bulbs and so on are used repeatedly to the point where you simply just want to get it over with and then you are in a new section with variations of the same puzzle. Also, it's almost Mario in that it's devoid of any background plot.
I think a better bet would have been to explore completing tasks that previous explorers had failed at (such as blasting through things kind of hints at) and detailing why they failed would give the player more buy-in.

[s279961]

Originally posted by Snake:

Originally posted by placerej:

Yeah, it's too long. I'm not even enjoying it all that much right now, a fair bit into the Interloper chapter. I loved the first Xen chapter, but was tired of the drag already in the lair chapter. Just want the game to be over now. The same gimmick over and over just isn't fun. It just feels like it's long just to be long, not because there is a need for it.

They went overboard on the length of the xen bit I think, there was so many moments where I was thinking what's the point of this part? like with the vortigaunts and the plug "puzzles".

I thought the point of the plug puzzles was that it was part of your sabotaging the evil along the way.

[placerej]

Originally posted by Snake:

Originally posted by placerej:

Yeah, it's too long. I'm not even enjoying it all that much right now, a fair bit into the Interloper chapter. I loved the first Xen chapter, but was tired of the drag already in the lair chapter. Just want the game to be over now. The same gimmick over and over just isn't fun. It just feels like it's long just to be long, not because there is a need for it.

They went overboard on the length of the xen bit I think, there was so many moments where I was thinking what's the point of this part? like with the vortigaunts and the plug "puzzles".

I actually enjoy the Vortigaun parts somewhat simply because I find the Vortigaunts so charming. Doesn't matter too much about the brain dead puzzles, I just like being around those geezers. I disliked the dragging cat and mouse thing in the lair more. "Just let me fight it already!"
I'm also more of a platformer fan than a "being hunted and getting stressed out" fan, so I guess that affects me as well.
I've been having trouble with the double jumping though. It doesn't always activate and that pisses me off. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong though.

[placerej]

Originally posted by ChalkLine1:

I think the problem with Xen is they use essentially three or so elements over and over. The plugs, the red bulbs and so on are used repeatedly to the point where you simply just want to get it over with and then you are in a new section with variations of the same puzzle. Also, it's almost Mario in that it's devoid of any background plot.
I think a better bet would have been to explore completing tasks that previous explorers had failed at (such as blasting through things kind of hints at) and detailing why they failed would give the player more buy-in.

This.
Most puzzles make no sense and don't fit very well into the world. It's just tired filler gameplay without any credibility behind it. Doesn't fit in the Half-life universe, where plot and story is a big thing.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by placerej:

Most puzzles make no sense and don't fit very well into the world. It's just tired filler gameplay without any credibility behind it. Doesn't fit in the Half-life universe, where plot and story is a big thing.

This is not even remotely true. Even ignoring Half-Life 2's tendency to simply not tell you anything about its central premise, even the original Half-Life left much of its plot unexplored, for the player to deduce through environmental cues. While I am obviously speculating, it seems pretty obvious to me that Gordon's through the alien facility is one of sabotage. This is shown fairly early on, where Gordon's invervention raises an alarm, causing aliens to respond with shocking disregard for their own equipment. Later, much of what Gordon does revolves around overclocking and destroying equipment.

As I said in another thread - there's plenty of environmental storytelling if you actually look for it. The environment itself tells you about this world, the people who live in it and the state of their society far better than I'd argue the original Half-Life did. The controller aliens visually mind-controlling Vortagaunts on-screen is a big departure from Half-Life, where this was implied. Grunts shown "dehumanised," naked and discarded in mass piles is also a new addition, showing just how little regard the "administrator" has for them. The way alien technology coexists with the various hostile life forms also didn't escape my attention.

Not to mention - most of these puzzles exist as tutorials for each other, because the majority of them end up being used in the final boss fight. Yes, there are fairly few mechanics, but here's a little secret: Portal had a single mechanic. Portal 2 had I believe 4 - portals, birdge, beam, goo.

There is plot and story in the Border World - I'd argue more so than Half-Life had. It's just shown, rather than explained.

[Pickled Tink]

Don't waste your breath. People these days expect plot presented to them on a platter via dialogue or text infodump. They don't have the time or care to observe and figure things out for themselves.

[unneon]

I just finished the first Xen chapter and I think they should have broken it into at least two chapters, without changing anything else. I started playing the game stopping each gaming session at a chapter change. It was fine for most part of the game (except Surface Tension), but when I reached Xen, I had to stop in the middle because it took way too long.

Additionally, I was carrying three items (Hat, Pizza, Tank) in the level and the Tank got stuck just before an autosave and I did two quick saves in sequence (after carrying the Hat and the Pizza). When I realized the tank was stuck, the closest save file was about 2 hours before. Smaller chapters could add more autosaves.

[Feesh]

Interloper was way too long for me. I finished the game, but by the time I got to the boss I was more than ready for the game to be over.

[Powercrank]

interloper did indeed drag on. maybe that was the point, because it's supposed to be like gordon is getting incredibly deep into alien territory, slowly running out of munitions while getting more and more worn down.

or maybe it's just too long

[placerej]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Originally posted by placerej:

Most puzzles make no sense and don't fit very well into the world. It's just tired filler gameplay without any credibility behind it. Doesn't fit in the Half-life universe, where plot and story is a big thing.

This is not even remotely true. Even ignoring Half-Life 2's tendency to simply not tell you anything about its central premise, even the original Half-Life left much of its plot unexplored, for the player to deduce through environmental cues. While I am obviously speculating, it seems pretty obvious to me that Gordon's through the alien facility is one of sabotage. This is shown fairly early on, where Gordon's invervention raises an alarm, causing aliens to respond with shocking disregard for their own equipment. Later, much of what Gordon does revolves around overclocking and destroying equipment.

As I said in another thread - there's plenty of environmental storytelling if you actually look for it. The environment itself tells you about this world, the people who live in it and the state of their society far better than I'd argue the original Half-Life did. The controller aliens visually mind-controlling Vortagaunts on-screen is a big departure from Half-Life, where this was implied. Grunts shown "dehumanised," naked and discarded in mass piles is also a new addition, showing just how little regard the "administrator" has for them. The way alien technology coexists with the various hostile life forms also didn't escape my attention.

Not to mention - most of these puzzles exist as tutorials for each other, because the majority of them end up being used in the final boss fight. Yes, there are fairly few mechanics, but here's a little secret: Portal had a single mechanic. Portal 2 had I believe 4 - portals, birdge, beam, goo.

There is plot and story in the Border World - I'd argue more so than Half-Life had. It's just shown, rather than explained.

I don't disagree with you, I just feel like the same story elements could have been presented with half the content. Many areas do tell, at least to me, the same thing.