I can see the point of this game, BUT...

[GeorgeKen]

i... LOVE the concept of the game. I love the fact its a dungeon crawler that you actually have to put some mind into it, tactics, run from mobs, survive... you know... BRAINS! awesome. I love the fact it's difficult.

What I really hate though is the fact that you die. And when you die, its not a "ooops, look, I died.... pity, lets continue from where we left". No. It's a perma-death, losing all your gear, your progress, your everything. And that makes the game nice in a way, but also VERY boring. It's boring to progress a game for like half an hour, and after a couple of failed swings you have to start all over again. I will let this game a bit to the side of my library, hoping that one day the developers will give us the option to at least keep our progress when we die.

Not everyone is a fan of "hardcore" mode you know (as in perma-death).

Feel free to share your thoughts, troll-free plz if you can.

[GeorgeKen]

Originally posted by Bare Mettle:

Oh no! Someone can't go on a mindless murder rampage even though they totally suck at the game and so they are not going to buy it! Poor us. Plenty of people will hate our game, but some will finally find a breath of fresh air amongst the endless clones. We don't care either way, we're not here to farm the human race for money, we're here to make a game according to our vision.

I think you should have stopped at your first reply which was professional and at least by my side, much respectable as it had a logic and was based on a way of thinking. Now you just ridicule yourself and appear to be as if you are 15, the attitude "I don't care what you say" without any seriousness should be left for problematic teenagers.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST: People learn to see who posts replies ffs, I am not the only one posting in here. I just wrote one freaking post and one reply to another user, I don't go on complaining endlessly as someone previously said. I got my refund and I am happy, so I don't really care anymore. But other people post in the forums too, it's not my fault people are not happy.

[ZAToM]

Originally posted by GeorgeKen:

Originally posted by Bare Mettle:

Oh no! Someone can't go on a mindless murder rampage even though they totally suck at the game and so they are not going to buy it! Poor us. Plenty of people will hate our game, but some will finally find a breath of fresh air amongst the endless clones. We don't care either way, we're not here to farm the human race for money, we're here to make a game according to our vision.

I think you should have stopped at your first reply which was professional and at least by my side, much respectable as it had a logic and was based on a way of thinking. Now you just ridicule yourself and appear to be as if you are 15, the attitude "I don't care what you say" without any seriousness should be left for problematic teenagers.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST: People learn to see who posts replies ffs, I am not the only one posting in here. I just wrote one freaking post, I don't go on complaining endlessly as someone previously said. Other people post in the forums too.

ur ignoring the answers which deliver solutions to ur concerns but prefer to.. "go on"

[Bare Mettle]

Originally posted by GeorgeKen:

I think you should have stopped at your first reply which was professional and at least by my side, much respectable as it had a logic and was based on a way of thinking. Now you just ridicule yourself and appear to be as if you are 15, the attitude "I don't care what you say" without any seriousness should be left for problematic teenagers.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST: People learn to see who posts replies ffs, I am not the only one posting in here. I just wrote one freaking post, I don't go on complaining endlessly as someone previously said. Other people post in the forums too.

Umm, my reply was in no way whatsoever directed at you. It was in reply to that garbage collection of censored swearing just after my post where I tried to explain the reasoning behind what we're doing.

We totally understand it's not to everyone's taste, and we certainly don't hold it against them. But then there's people who spew insults at us because we didn't make the game to their specification. It's tedious at best.

[GeorgeKen]

I read carefully every reply ZAToM, even the trolls. Still didn't really solve my problem which was losing all gear if you die. Unconsciousness feature (if you ask me) is not any solution, considering how hard it is to heal in this game. You are just given a second chance to die again, since in your first encounter one hit will kill you. Anyways, best of luck and enjoy the game to those who have plenty of time to invest in this game (again and again).

[GeorgeKen]

Originally posted by Bare Mettle:

Originally posted by GeorgeKen:

We totally understand it's not to everyone's taste, and we certainly don't hold it against them. But then there's people who spew insults at us because we didn't make the game to their specification. It's tedious at best.

Then I am sorry, I didn't understand that cause I usually ignore trolls and no-logic posts. Sorry if I sounded too harsh on my comment, I was just trying to discuss this, not create a "flame" post. I wish you best of luck with your game(s).

[Bare Mettle]

Understandable. Some things make me tick, even if they are just troll posts.

The notion that as developers we're somehow bound to accomodate every possible customer and do everything and anything to increase sales is quite infuriating. People pose it like it's some kind of threat, and they need to understand that we are genuinely not concerned.

It does sadden us that some people are not able to enjoy things they might appreciate about the game because they don't like others. We do make compromises when we can, but there's a limit to how much we're willing to compromise. Hopefully if we are doing something right some other developer might pick that up and offer it in a different package.

That said, I think that while the game may indeed be inaccessible to some people, for the large majority the real issue is the incredibly steep learning curve, not the lack of a more forgiving save system. The way the combat and controls work is very novel, and it can take people an indefinite amount of time to wrap their head around how it actually works. Once you do though the game is really not very hard at all. Also unusually the game mostly becomes easier the further you get. Progression is very significant, you start off being very vulnerable, but this changes dramatically as you progress.

[Mtcheeeew]

The problem with death in this game is that you are not sufficiently skilled to stay alive, your grasp of the physics is rudimentary at best, if not you would have no problems with brainless undead. The undead attack wildly but do not block or parry, as soon as you understand how the game works properly and have a grasp for it, then combat clicks and you start to see all their vulnerabilities. Just like souls you learn and adapt, but instead you are still in the learning phase and take for granted what more experienced players tell you, it takes time. It took me 20hrs to complete expert arena, I refused to go into the campaign after dying so much but at some point there is this very clear clicking and understanding, it's like finally achieving harmony with the physics, and trust me you will know when you achieve it. Stop comparing exanima to other games, it is very possible to reach level 4 without dying and combating all opponents, I do it on every run and undead are easy with a stick or a sword.

[Tempered]

One thing that could go a long way in easing the pain for people in arena mode is to be able to rehire your old hirelings if your main character dies.
Or alternatively, don't make us wait through 1000 fights to find the one peice of equipment we want. In my opinion, all the time waiting for an item to come up in the store is the biggest aggrevation for arena mode. I could care less about the perma death, but having to fighting another 1000 fights for a pair of thigh boots is where the tedium comes in.

[Gozer]

quote=eric;412448792361942141]Wow. Haven't visited Examina in a while - very impressive! This is my arena mode: play for 3 hours, challenger kills me in two hits. play new character for 6 hours, died in elimination mode. Oh man. Hardcore. I'll play it again in two months.

Edit: Started another character an hour later. I'm hooked. A glutton foe punishment. [/quote]


This guy gets it.

You remember everything you learn from every life. Learn from your mistakes.

Come back and do better.


Feels good to improve in this game. Kudos to you eric.

Feels real good.

[Xero]

Originally posted by brandpower911(IDC):

We got a smart ass here! Look out folks. The fact that you don't play online in dark souls proves you are simply afraid of your inevitable defeat. Time does = Skill, if you don't believe that then you will not accomplish anything. I laugh when you say that, do you think someone who picks up an instrument is automatically good at it? What about programming? What about sports? Sure there are some prodigies out there, but practice does make perfect and in order to practice you need to put in time.

No, i play Exanima in offline mode as that can keep steam from tracking the game time. I play Dark Souls on console and there are several twitch streams i have been on fighting the streamer.

And the counter to your argument: Someone can spend hundreds of hours playing any number of games and never improve. So people need to quit saying there is a minimum amount of time needed to be good at the game.

[Brandrixco]

If you play a game and never improve is either a) You are not paying attention and b) You have some learning disorder...This guy is completely disabled from his lower and upper body and plays star craft on diamond level... http://www.twitch.tv/kurirko402/v/51666220 The guy plays the game with a stick in his mouth. This guy can woop my ass in the game and I have all my limbs functional.

Saying that someone can play a game for a number of hours and never improve is the biggest load of ♥♥♥♥ I ever read.

[The Lady of Succubussian Affairs]

Originally posted by brandpower911(IDC):

If you play a game and never improve is either a) You are not paying attention and b) You have some learning disorder...This guy is completely disabled from his lower and upper body and plays star craft on diamond level... http://www.twitch.tv/kurirko402/v/51666220 The guy plays the game with a stick in his mouth. This guy can woop my ass in the game and I have all my limbs functional.

Saying that someone can play a game for a number of hours and never improve is the biggest load of ♥♥♥♥ I ever read.

This^

Perfectly reasonable argument. No defense to this.

[ruolbu]

This is going to be besides the point of this threat. I just want to reply to a single statement:

Originally posted by Bare Mettle:

If everything is inconsequential then what is the point?

Relaxation, is the word that I would use to boil it down. Or in your own words:

Originally posted by Bare Mettle:

Without consequences for losing you can have linear storytelling and you can feed your greed and addictions

I think both of these things can have enough value on their own even without all that tension involved. I hear remakes of old Final Fantasy titles allow the player turn off random encounters - the one thing that does pose a challenge (dunno how boss battles are handled). Visual novels are a big market. Those and classic click and point adventures (to name a more western genre) rarely have outright fail states. People don't play them solely for the challenge and tension but for example to experience a story or simply escape the daily grind.

Another thing that from my experience drives many people to play games are the game mechanics. A musician can pick up their instrument and spend valuable time just playing an old piece they know by heart. They indulge in an experience where body movement results in tactile, acustic and visual feedback that is plain enjoyable. The path to obtain their current skill with that instrument certainly was challenging, but playing it now and deriving pleasure from it is not based on the difficulty of the piece (of course it can be, all musicians are different, yet it's not a prerequisite)
Similar with game mechanics. Just manipulating something that is easy but still feels responsive, unique, interesting and empowering can be reward enough.



All of this has no relevance to Exanima. I just really don't understand this mindset:

Originally posted by Bare Mettle:

Without consequences for losing [...] you can't have [...] in my opinion any actual fun

Have you ever played Journey?

[gemini_w]

I mostyl don't "improve" I play games for fun, easy level, I have many other lives than video games and certainly not a daily even weekly activity, so I tend to forget and need to practice again. And when the games allow me (too bad this one won't it looks really really interesting, great and everyhting) I thoroughly enjoy the work behind it, even if I play at the lowest possible level. Have to delete this one from my fave list after reading this post but I really can't understand why devs would deprive guys from an easy fix if all the options for the hardcore gamers are in place.

[Mtcheeeew]

Because many players that would enjoy the hard core will choose the easy route and ruin the game for themselves. I love battle brothers but I hate the fact that it saves b4 each battle because I abuse it if I lose a fav mercenary. It's like saying the options to have drugs isn't bad, those that don't want shudnt use it, knowing full well there are many who will use it because it's there.
Why is it so much to respect the devs dreams and vision? Must you try to make them feel bad because they didn't cater their game to you? What of the 100s of players that backed them because the game was going to be purely hard-core, should the devs break their word to sell more? They have even stated it isn't about the money and yet you guys say you don't understand.

Let me make it clear, they have a dream and vision, imagine it was you and someone comes telling you how to make your game because that's what's convenient for them. Have some class.