[Feedback] A huge disappointment

[Pamyu]

Hello everyone, i know this is early access, i know there will be updates / fixes and new features. This post is regardless the negative way this game is taking compare to How to survive 1. There is a lot of people saying "it is not the same game", well, it has the same name so, let's take a look at it.

Evolution of How to Survive

First of all, evolution is not about graphics. How to survive 1 was a solo / co-op diablo like with survival elements. The power of HtS 1 was the gameplay, fast and robust with zombie's execution and a good targeting system. The craft system was complex and thinking with maturity.

What about How to Survive 2 ?

It sounds more like a pre-alpha with only 10% of end-game content and gameplay broken mechanics. There is tons and tons of gameplay breaker and aweful gameplay situation. Compare to the first sequel, this new version has not 50% of the gameplay functions.

Let's take a look and compare what we can..

Menu and in-game controls

First thing notable, there is no options to modify the keybinds (shame) and no video/audio options (except the second executable to choose an overhaul graphic settings). The default keyboard's binds are simply "console" and not "PC".

For example, sprinting with SPACE is unacceptable.. in the first sequel it was like 99% of game like this with SHIFT. Well, i'm not gonna say more, it is a joke to "relearn" how to play on this early access and you'll die more than once before adapting to the new keybinds.

Second thing, the "menu" and "menu interaction". It simply looks like "Unity 3D" simple asset for the menu, the interaction is horrible, we can't press more than once on a crafting, we have to leave the box, selecting it again and press.. so lame.

It is not finish, but it is not polish too.

Open World and maps

There is no open-world, and the game's description is a fake. The game is about a "camp map" and missions teleport you to "little maps" called city where you can scavenge what spawn and objects never respawn.

Maps are not good, they are not bad, they are repetitive. The camp map is the same over and over without interest to loot except for wood, stick, plants.. and you'll find everything else in the little city maps. Meaning ? farm the same spot again and again. You'll be bored in an hour.

Broken gameplay

The worst thing of this game is the gameplay, totally broken where controling your avatar will make you yell to hell. First hing first, there is auto target to use combos. You'll hit where you aim, if you face the wrong way, you'll miss, you'll get it, you'll rage. In the first sequel, the gameplay was awesome, intelligent targeting, aiming and finish him movement.

Here ? Nothing... you'll make the same movement again and again, combos are useless, consuming stamina and making no more damages. Aiming with bows and guns are simply dumb. A mini-game over the head for the shoot is dumb, serisouly.

Zombie's are simply dumb... you can finish all the game and kill all monsters by making them bug. Walk in the stairs, climb a car and they'll never hit you. They will run around like headless chickens and waiting to die.

Zombies are so broken, the best one is the "runner". He runs at you, and hit you whatever weapons you are using! You'll get damaged automatically if you find one and there is plenty of this guys. So ? Run, climb a car, kill, run, climb a car, kill, run, walk in stairs, kill.... Best gameplay forever! *ironic*

In the first sequel, zombies was interesting.. with awesome fights! Remember the guy with helmet you have to execute or headshot two times, the berserk with lot of HPs, or the chemical one you have to shoot in the flammable tank to explode ? It was amazing.. in HtS 2, you'll never have a simple gameplay mechanics by zombies.

No animations, *ironic* Why adding animations in survival game ? They simply add a scrolling bar for using items... even the bandage... dumb...

The camera is horrible, we can't see anything. Even in buildings, the camera effect is incredibly aweful.

Progression in-game

Don't say "yay we can gain xp" because this part is not broken, it is the worst progression system of all time. I'll explain why...

You can't level up if your camp is not one level more. SO, ok, dev's think about that it is ok. But ... and it is a BIG BUT, zombie's are not more dangerous, they simply add more Health Points to zombies! Tadaaaaaaaa... jobs done.

Meaning ? you have to up your camp to up your avatar and after level 3, scavenging the camp map is impossible. Infected deers are broken, you can't avoid two of them and you can't escape. Level 10+ zombie's have so much HPs, you can't kill them without 5-6 hits and it is a non-sense. All monsters gain HPs, don't expect killing zombies like the first sequel or in Walking dead, here, you hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit.... with the same weapon's animation.

Well, shame to devs, the progression system is broken. You can do better.

Crafting and buildings

You can craft basic stuff with your avatar, more crafts on buildings you create on the camp map. You must know, buildings are "giant" and a non-sense to them. It takes place for nothing so you have to adjust the place and think "big camp".

There is no defensive structure (at level 15). It is a survival game where half of the game you can't defend your camp except using walls. Walls can be destroy easily by zombies when two of them stuck on it. It cost lots of objects to craft and fade/destroy in a second.

Too craft more stuff, you have to level up your main structures.. and after 3-4 levels, the objects you need are dumb.. you gonna have to farm the same maps again and again, and again, and again....

Missions

Well, you can't scroll down the missions so you'll never discover new one, you'll have to farm the same old to death.

Missions could be a good idea if the city map was an open-world city map. Imagine ? more you go deeper, more the zombies are hard, more you'll have chance to die and find new clues or missions... but no... in HtS 2, you take a mission and change the level of the mission and go for it.. where sometimes, you can't take the objects of the mission because doors are close and you can't destroy those doors...

Want an hint ? Take a mission, put the hardest mode, climb a car and kill them all. You'll get massive XP and just... don't care about the mission's progression.

Equipment and Weapons

The weapon and the armors you get from the early access are useless... -3% damage reduction per piece where crafted ones are -5%. The guitar's axe is too slow and you'll get hit by all zombies!

I'm level 15 or 16 and i have only one set of armor craftable and around 5 weapons... Machete, Baseball bat, Little gun, a rifle and... that's it, the guitar but it is more "posing weapon".

There is NO character's customisation, you'll never get Shirt, pants, or loot weapons or armors. There is no armor's durability... nothing...

Conclusion

I'm waiting the hater's wave of "it is early access", but listen kids... when i say "it was better before", just download the first one, 3 euros on steam and see what a fun game is. I can't imagine it is the same studio behind this new version. The game is empty of all survival aspects and content.

It was too difficult to take the same content and add a better multiplayer on a "real" open-world ? No ? you had to do everything from scratch and.. the result is that the game is poor compare to the first one.

Seriously ? i'm gonna be honest, i wanted a refund but i played more than 2 hours and now i'm stuck with a game i shouldn't buy. As a friend of mine said "Wait and see" but seriously, if we have to compare the quality of HtS 1 and 2... this new version sounds like a joke to make good money.

[DEADLIGHT]

Y u do make alot of fair points this game could be great just needs alot of work.

[Skyh Blue]

Originally posted by DEADLIGHT:

Y u do make alot of fair points this game could be great just needs alot of work.

+1

[seasler]

-1 its more like a mimim wall of text man man calm down and wait its an EA title

[Tommah]

Most of what you are talking about is just lack of content. Not enough attack animations, not enough items, not enough variety of zombies, not enough customization, not big enough maps.

Now I've done SOME game development and whereas I am not an expert, I do know that the hardest part is just getting everything to work together and that adding content later in the development is RELATIVELY easy. So of course there is going to be a lot of basics in Early Access (especially only being out a couple days), then once all bugs are worked out you can start adding in additional content/model/skins/animations/blah blah. They have even stated one of their goals is to increase the map sizes.

I loved the first one and I must say that I am thoroughly enjoying this one. I think it has a hell of a lot more potential.

*Edit*
I would kill for modding support in this game.

[Hviid]

Originally posted by Tommah:

Most of what you are talking about is just lack of content. Not enough attack animations, not enough items, not enough variety of zombies, not enough customization, not big enough maps.

Now I've done SOME game development and whereas I am not an expert, I do know that the hardest part is just getting everything to work together and that adding content later in the development is RELATIVELY easy. So of course there is going to be a lot of basics in Early Access (especially only being out a couple days), then once all bugs are worked out you can start adding in additional content/model/skins/animations/blah blah. They have even stated one of their goals is to increase the map sizes.

I loved the first one and I must say that I am thoroughly enjoying this one. I think it has a hell of a lot more potential.

*Edit*
I would kill for modding support in this game.

I wish i could upvote your post. People need to realize this is early access, and the game hasnt even been out for a week. Early access means, the game is only just playable. It doesnt mean it has a lot of content, if any. It doesnt mean it has any customization. It means it has the bare necessities to be played.

[Tommah]

Yea, the biggest thing is "Does the ability exist?".

Yes, it is possible to interchange outfits and looks. They just need to develop a customization menu. Yes, Item and weapon requirements and recipes work, they just need to start brainstorming more ideas. Yes, there IS different types of zombies (walk/run), now they can start thinking of ways to implement new ones. Yes, the combo system and item using works, now they need to actually make animations. Yes, multiplayer/netcode works, now they can develop a multiplayer menu/server list. Of course all these things are at their own priority, I'm just trying to make a point.

Its never as easy as copying and pasting an old game into a new one and adding content.

[Pamyu]

Thanks for your answers guys. Thing is...

1. i didn't understand why they change what was good to something that is totally broken.
2. Why didn't they simply "test" the game before early access ?

Is it so difficult to test the game and say "hell yay, we can't scroll the missions, let's fox it ?" no, they didn't. So i'm frustrated and a bit anger regarding the game. And for most of thoses bugs, it is 2015 guys, and early access don't cover all the mistakes.

[SwissArmyKnife]

Originally posted by Aruvyel:

Thanks for your answers guys. Thing is...
1. i didn't understand why they change what was good to something that is totally broken.
2. Why didn't they simply "test" the game before early access ?

1. They are using a new game engine for this game. That was stated in one of the threads by a dev team member so there are definitely some lessons to be learned and kinks worked out.
2. Early Access is their "test" base. They even allude to that on the store page.

What is the current state of the Early Access version?
We just hit Alpha

Originally posted by Aruvyel:

It sounds more like a pre-alpha with only 10% of end-game content and gameplay broken mechanics.

Max level in the game is 75, Early Access max level is 30. Melee weapons have no models after level 5 right now, ranged weapons* are working up through level 30 but aren't available because the camp buildings are limited to level 15-16.

*I've been doing some digging and modding my single player save to play with all the hidden content.

Originally posted by Aruvyel:

Menu and in-game controls

Absolutely agree on this part, the keyboard controls are bad. No ifs ands or buts about that.

Originally posted by Aruvyel:

Open World and maps

Open-world is definitely not a word I would choose to describe the game either. It's very instanced right now with the way the map system works. Hoping this will change but it may be a game engine or budget limitation.

Originally posted by Aruvyel:

Broken gameplay

In the current KBM settings, I agree that controlling where you hit is really bad. On controller, it feels really easy but many people don't like playing with one so it's an invalid argument.

I actually really like the "mini-game" for the shooting, very easy to time after awhile. I've gotten to the point where I don't need to see it to get the critical hit off most of the time. I only need to see the red aiming tracer. This is just my opinion though and it obviously differs from others sometimes.

Killing zombies by standing on cars/stairs is a physics bug that Tiger has stated they are working on ironing out. It's definitely an exploit but it isn't one that is expected to stay through release.

Zombie runners, like every other zombie, can have their attacks dodged if you run in a small circle. If you are walking toward a zombie and hold down the melee for a charged attack, you hit with the base of your guitar-axe. This is the same attack the zombies are doing but with their hands only.

Originally posted by Aruvyel:

Progression in-game

Zombies gain both health and damage as you level. Infected deers are painful in packs of two but you can down them with enough shots, less than 3 with criticals. Just have to time the shots for when they are stunned after charging.

After level 15 (and because melee weapons are broken), you have to start using charged melee hits or swap to higher level guns/crossbow with the higher damage arrows/bolts/bullets.

Originally posted by Aruvyel:

Missions

This should be fixed today and since you're supposed to be playing with others, you really shouldn't need to farm if everyone is doing their quests. The game difficulty and craft requirements are all centered around multiplayer.

Originally posted by Aruvyel:

Equipment and Weapons

Primal Fear set, I made a suggestion over here about tweaking it.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/360170/discussions/3/496879865899409057/

Guitar Axe is unfortunately the best weapon in the game right now for melee, which is pretty sad to say. The other models aren't done yet but the weapon names/stats are there.

Character customization is coming later. You can click the Shirt icon in the Character screen to randomize your character skin (no ladies yet!)


TLDR: The game is in Alpha status and probably 15% completed for content. Quest bug is being fixed today, maybe. Combat bug is also being looked at. Also, I agree that the game is in a sad state compared to HTS1 but that was a game that was mostly complete on release. This one isn't even close to being complete.

[Kronembauer]

Originally posted by Aruvyel:

Thanks for your answers guys. Thing is...

1. i didn't understand why they change what was good to something that is totally broken.
2. Why didn't they simply "test" the game before early access ?

Is it so difficult to test the game and say "hell yay, we can't scroll the missions, let's fox it ?" no, they didn't. So i'm frustrated and a bit anger regarding the game. And for most of thoses bugs, it is 2015 guys, and early access don't cover all the mistakes.

hello there,

I must say I don't usually read all topics as I did with this one, really interesting and well organized, congratz.

Said that, i have to agree with all your points, we could add more bad points, and I'm quite dissapointed as well, but do not lose hope.

1.- i don't understand either.
2.- they wanted to earn some money in order to keep developing. Doing this they will encourage devs to keep working.

Let's see what they bring us in future upgrades.

[Pamyu]

I'm glad we can have this kind of discussion and not a hater's wave.

Thanks for your answers and affored me more clarity on the dev's todo list. Could be usefull to have a roadmap and more informations about the game development.

I'm maybe too fan-boy of the first sequel :)

[Tommah]

1. As I stated it's not just copy and paste. They rebuilt and are trying new things, that's why its a new game and not an expansion. A few bugs is also far from "totally broken", everything else is just design choices that may or may not stay.

2. Early Access is their "testing". Developers rarely get to sit down and actually play their game, they debug but never play it, they spend their entire time actually working on the game. If they did take the time to play the entire game whenever they changed something, everyone would whine about how they aren't pushing out updates fast enough. And yes its 2015, in the past developers had closed beta testers. Here in 2015, we have the opportunity to be the testers.

Whereas I understand why you're bummed out, its nothing to get all up in arms about. Its a very fun game with a lot of potential, with a company that has proven that they listen to the community.

Originally posted by Aruvyel:

Thanks for your answers guys. Thing is...

1. i didn't understand why they change what was good to something that is totally broken.
2. Why didn't they simply "test" the game before early access ?

Is it so difficult to test the game and say "hell yay, we can't scroll the missions, let's fox it ?" no, they didn't. So i'm frustrated and a bit anger regarding the game. And for most of thoses bugs, it is 2015 guys, and early access don't cover all the mistakes.

[Tiger]

Aruvyel,

Thank you for your comments.

We are currently looking into many of the issues you talked about and will be releasing updates on a regular weekly basis starting with today. We looked to release HTS 2 as an Early Access Alpha so that we could get feedback from knowledgable people like you and use it to make a better game for everyone. Unlike HTS 1 which we released as a fully completed game tuned to our internal thoughts and then upgraded over the next year to the communities feedback, with HTS 2 we are looking to get your feedback at Alpha.

This means that many things are not as polished as HTS 1 at full release and some things still need alot of tuning. We do though want to make sure we polish and tune them to what our community is asking for and comments like yours help us to do it. Keep your comments coming and be sure to give us updates on how we are doing while we put out our regular game updates that address those issue you find to be important to you.

HTS 2 is a new engine and allows for many things that people asked for that we couldn't do in HTS 1. The new engine is much more complex and has it's own new unquie isses. We have been doing QA on it for over 5 months, but with the thousands of you playing over these past few days there are many things that we were never able to see happening. We are looking to address all of the critical issues you have been talking to us about asap.

With that in mind we are releasing a Hotfix patch today (we have been testing it the last few days internally) which we hope will address some of the more critical issues people have been experiencing. We are also planning on releasing on our Beta branch a build that contains both tuning and bug fixes on Friday. If that build looks good we will then push it live to the main branch next Monday.

As I said we are commited to doing regular updates and look to be working on making this the game you want it to become over the next months and through next year. We know we have a long way to go, but hope you will join us in this journey to make a great game!

-Tiger