Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege

Shields are dead! Decrease C4 amount!
There are too many operators with nitro cells and too few people playing shields because of that. In comparison: There are only 3 attackers with HE grenades. Capitáo, Sledge, Buck.
Ultima modifica da Spirit; 4 ago 2016, ore 23:51
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Messaggio originale di Joker:
Messaggio originale di Cerebral Daemon:
Two words : Macie Jay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzhJd2A5H_0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbQZq8jH3Ak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTl6G2REkZE

Yeah like he (or every other Let's player) would upload a video where he gets blown up all the time..
Oh, right, I guess I forgot to point out that this guy is also a twitch streamer, which means he doesn't have control over what he show us and what he doesn't. And, guess what, he still rarely gets blown up, C4 is still a non-issue.

Or, about the fact that this guy can hold his own against even players in the Pro League, as was shown plenty of times in uncut matches and streams, as well as through direct challenges from the Pro players themselves.

Or, about the fact that Serenity17 himself acknowledged him as being one of the few remaining "good shield players" out there.

You're right, based solely on the fact that he's a "Let's player" (like, quite literally, all the Pro players, btw), we should just consider that he's a trash player, despite all the proof that would normally lead us to believe he would dominate anyone in this thread, myself included, when using a shield. My bad. :awkward:
Messaggio originale di Joker:
Messaggio originale di DaDooM:

i never said anything like that.
are you on drugs? stop making stuff up, and stop talking for the whole community, you are just a couple of whiners who can't deal with losing a match.
to me, C4 is good as it is.

Man I bet the Terrorists in Terrorist Hunt have more skills than you..

nope, but they are harder to kill than whiny losers like you, who don't know how to play because they lack the brains for it. you wannabe-joker
Messaggio originale di DaDooM:
Messaggio originale di Joker:

Man I bet the Terrorists in Terrorist Hunt have more skills than you..

nope, but they are harder to kill than whiny losers like you, who don't know how to play because they lack the brains for it. you wannabe-joker
It takes more skill to die from a nitro cell than to kill with one.
Ultima modifica da VtigerFTW; 5 ago 2016, ore 13:36
Messaggio originale di Nekres:
Messaggio originale di CursedPanther:
Like I've said earlier, shield should be able to mitigate explosive damage to a degree so the explosives don't have to be nerfed into oblivion.
It's not about nerfing the nitro cells, it's about decreasing the general amount of them. Example: While you and your team tries to play with shield, the shield will have to care 3-4 enemy operators having nitro cells, where 2 or 3 are most likely roaming. The shield is so busy caring for nitro cells inbetween the already short attack time that his actual utility is not in use, giving the team nothing. At this time is just not worth picking a shield with all the nitro cells avalaible to the defending side.

Let me get into more detail.

Attackers have only 3 operators with frag grenades: Buck, Capitáo and Sledge , also Recruit and you will rarely see all 3 on the team, as you will always rely on a Thermite, a Thatcher, a Twitch, a Glaz if plane as they are more valuable options. And to have fewer frag grenades is ok! You are not defending. It would be a mess to just bombard the defending team inside the windows with a vast amount of frag grenades.

On the contrary however, you have following operators with a nitro cell:

Smoke,
Mute,
Pulse,
Kapkan,
Bandit,
Valkyrie,
Caveira
, also Recruit

from this list you will most likely rely on a Mute, a Pulse (as he is freaking strong with overhaul.), or/and a Valkyrie.
As youc an see, there are some operators on the defending team with a HUGE utility buff for your team, you almost always see 2 or 3 of them. This means a shield will have to care most of the time so he is half the time in front line and half of the time back line while engaging, while he is going forth and back to not get nitro bombed, because he is a slow moving armor sack. He is not shielding the short time you have for the target objective.
back to topic
learn to play...no more freaking nerfs...you crybabies are ruining this game.
Messaggio originale di VtigerFTW:
It takes more skill to die from a nitro cell than to kill with one.
That is so sad, yet so true.
On the wider topic of C4, perhaps their prolifferation is a problem, since the most played operators now all have C4 i.e. Valyrie, Pulse (as of 3.4), Kapkan (as of 3.3), Smoke, Bandit, Mute (as of 3.3) and so on. While C4 would make sence against a team featuring 4 shields (including Blackbeard), especially in the Pro League, where one shield rule applies (BB counts as a shield), against a team where sheilds have more or less left the meta, C4 has become a bit of a dominant choice.
And one of the main reasons why I want some C4 options go away is because it's starting to push barbed wire and even deployable shield out of the meta, which is not a good thing to see IMO.

On the topic of shields, they've been pushed out of the meta, simple as. While maps like Plane (especially with the BS spawnkilling that happens too often) still necessitate shield to be used, especially Montagne, the way that C4 has become the go to gadget has really made the shield an endagered species out on the field. While some of this can be blamed on the existance of Blackbeard, I think the prolifferation of C4 as an anti-shield weapon has made people choose rifle using operators over shields just because range is C4's only weakness.

And for anyone who decides to use the "git gud" line, please link me to a video of someone using a conventional shield (i.e. not Blackbeard) in R6S since the Season 2 update (3.0) with great effect. If tou don't then the point being made just is made even further.
Messaggio originale di vaska00762:
On the wider topic of C4, perhaps their prolifferation is a problem, since the most played operators now all have C4 i.e. Valyrie, Pulse (as of 3.4), Kapkan (as of 3.3), Smoke, Bandit, Mute (as of 3.3) and so on. While C4 would make sence against a team featuring 4 shields (including Blackbeard), especially in the Pro League, where one shield rule applies (BB counts as a shield), against a team where sheilds have more or less left the meta, C4 has become a bit of a dominant choice.
And one of the main reasons why I want some C4 options go away is because it's starting to push barbed wire and even deployable shield out of the meta, which is not a good thing to see IMO.
Finally something that actually make sense, in this thread.

However, I'd like to ask you, do you have any suggestion on how this could be achieved in a reliable way? Sure, there's always the option of removing C4 from operators to make it less prevalent, but as more and more operators are added into the game (Japan and, hopefully, whatever might come next year), the C4 problem will constantly come back. Plus, we can't really set a limit on how many C4 a team has access to without it becoming the same race to pick C4 as the race we have right now for some operators (which, sometimes, is accompanied by teamkill when whoever wanted something didn't get it). Do you have any clue toward a potential solution to the problem?

Messaggio originale di vaska00762:
On the topic of shields, they've been pushed out of the meta, simple as. While maps like Plane (especially with the BS spawnkilling that happens too often) still necessitate shield to be used, especially Montagne, the way that C4 has become the go to gadget has really made the shield an endagered species out on the field. While some of this can be blamed on the existance of Blackbeard, I think the prolifferation of C4 as an anti-shield weapon has made people choose rifle using operators over shields just because range is C4's only weakness.
I wouldn't really blame Blackbeard for any of it, the shield playstyle was endangered long before his arrival. The problem is definitely C4 and how much strong it is in the current meta, to the point that it shadows both other options (barbed wire and deployable shield).

Honestly, at this point I think the only viable way to bring C4 in line with the rest (and the only way that will be lasting, since removing C4 might also work but it would be temporary), would be to rework C4 completely and make it more of a trap, instead of a killing tool you can use on the fly. Otherwise, the problem will continuously arise, no matter how much work is done for it.

Messaggio originale di vaska00762:
And for anyone who decides to use the "git gud" line, please link me to a video of someone using a conventional shield (i.e. not Blackbeard) in R6S since the Season 2 update (3.0) with great effect. If tou don't then the point being made just is made even further.
I'm not gonna tell you to "git gud" (you're one of the few who actually made sense in this thread, so far), but just wanna point out that I -did- provide footage of effective shield usage since after the Dust Line update. Shields aren't truly dead, they're merely much harder to use effectively. Here, lemme quote it back :

Messaggio originale di Cerebral Daemon:
Two words : Macie Jay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzhJd2A5H_0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbQZq8jH3Ak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTl6G2REkZE
Messaggio originale di DaDooM:
Messaggio originale di Joker:

Man I bet the Terrorists in Terrorist Hunt have more skills than you..

nope, but they are harder to kill than whiny losers like you, who don't know how to play because they lack the brains for it. you wannabe-joker

Hahaha the joke is on you little baby girl. I already said that I achieved diamond. So what was your rank actually?
Messaggio originale di Cerebral Daemon:
Messaggio originale di vaska00762:
On the wider topic of C4, perhaps their prolifferation is a problem, since the most played operators now all have C4 i.e. Valyrie, Pulse (as of 3.4), Kapkan (as of 3.3), Smoke, Bandit, Mute (as of 3.3) and so on. While C4 would make sence against a team featuring 4 shields (including Blackbeard), especially in the Pro League, where one shield rule applies (BB counts as a shield), against a team where sheilds have more or less left the meta, C4 has become a bit of a dominant choice.
And one of the main reasons why I want some C4 options go away is because it's starting to push barbed wire and even deployable shield out of the meta, which is not a good thing to see IMO.
Finally something that actually make sense, in this thread.

However, I'd like to ask you, do you have any suggestion on how this could be achieved in a reliable way? Sure, there's always the option of removing C4 from operators to make it less prevalent, but as more and more operators are added into the game (Japan and, hopefully, whatever might come next year), the C4 problem will constantly come back. Plus, we can't really set a limit on how many C4 a team has access to without it becoming the same race to pick C4 as the race we have right now for some operators (which, sometimes, is accompanied by teamkill when whoever wanted something didn't get it). Do you have any clue toward a potential solution to the problem?

Messaggio originale di vaska00762:
On the topic of shields, they've been pushed out of the meta, simple as. While maps like Plane (especially with the BS spawnkilling that happens too often) still necessitate shield to be used, especially Montagne, the way that C4 has become the go to gadget has really made the shield an endagered species out on the field. While some of this can be blamed on the existance of Blackbeard, I think the prolifferation of C4 as an anti-shield weapon has made people choose rifle using operators over shields just because range is C4's only weakness.
I wouldn't really blame Blackbeard for any of it, the shield playstyle was endangered long before his arrival. The problem is definitely C4 and how much strong it is in the current meta, to the point that it shadows both other options (barbed wire and deployable shield).

Honestly, at this point I think the only viable way to bring C4 in line with the rest (and the only way that will be lasting, since removing C4 might also work but it would be temporary), would be to rework C4 completely and make it more of a trap, instead of a killing tool you can use on the fly. Otherwise, the problem will continuously arise, no matter how much work is done for it.

Messaggio originale di vaska00762:
And for anyone who decides to use the "git gud" line, please link me to a video of someone using a conventional shield (i.e. not Blackbeard) in R6S since the Season 2 update (3.0) with great effect. If tou don't then the point being made just is made even further.
I'm not gonna tell you to "git gud" (you're one of the few who actually made sense in this thread, so far), but just wanna point out that I -did- provide footage of effective shield usage since after the Dust Line update. Shields aren't truly dead, they're merely much harder to use effectively. Here, lemme quote it back :

Messaggio originale di Cerebral Daemon:
Two words : Macie Jay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzhJd2A5H_0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbQZq8jH3Ak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTl6G2REkZE

In parts:
A C4 solution could be the reduction of how many C4s are theoretically available to a balanced team. So let's say a defence team needs to be balanced between have 1-2 roamers, 2-3 mobile operators who stay close to objective and at least 1 heavy operator that stays put at the objective. If you have all of those spots filled and the team still has 3-4 C4s available, then you have an issue. If you took C4 from the less logical operators Mute, Bandit and maybe even Kapkan (though that's debatable IMO as Kapkan's a trapper) then possibly, possibly you end up balancing the need between C4, Barbed Wire as early warners (and parts of ambushes) and Depoyable Shields as extended cover where necessary.
Another fix could be lengthening the animation time for a C4 throw, and maybe making the throw itself slower than it is currently. That means you have a C4 that can still be used in the same way as before, but it's less effective as a remotely detonating grenade. Furthermore, it allows for players to reconsider C4 and use it more like a trap than a kinda sorta grenade. As such you could end up with IQ becoming even more relevant as she tried to spot C4 more. Of course the counter to that would be making C4 much less loud, and improving its trap abilities.

Blackbeard I feel has some responsibility though, since many shield players have moved away from the traditional shield simply because they can now have the benefits of being a regular rifle weilding operator but also shielded, albeit with much less cover. Perhaps that's maybe due to me watching a lot of the Pro League, but I think in the wider public meta, that's also true.

I also see that in the videos you show, the shield play relies heavily on team play and relying on a friend to cover your backend, and making sure no one tried anything there. I suspect that's maybe due to shields in general being nice and meaty at the rear, as they have always been rather than anything new.
Messaggio originale di Cerebral Daemon:
Messaggio originale di Joker:

Yeah like he (or every other Let's player) would upload a video where he gets blown up all the time..
Oh, right, I guess I forgot to point out that this guy is also a twitch streamer, which means he doesn't have control over what he show us and what he doesn't. And, guess what, he still rarely gets blown up, C4 is still a non-issue.

Or, about the fact that this guy can hold his own against even players in the Pro League, as was shown plenty of times in uncut matches and streams, as well as through direct challenges from the Pro players themselves.

Or, about the fact that Serenity17 himself acknowledged him as being one of the few remaining "good shield players" out there.

You're right, based solely on the fact that he's a "Let's player" (like, quite literally, all the Pro players, btw), we should just consider that he's a trash player, despite all the proof that would normally lead us to believe he would dominate anyone in this thread, myself included, when using a shield. My bad. :awkward:

Oh my god.. I never said that he is a trash player. And I also played against a couple of pro players and won against them. They are human after all, they aren't the gods you think they are. They just have more time to play. I even played alongside of them. Hell I don't even care who this guy is. Why should I? This game isn't meant just for "pros". It's meant for everybody. I don't know any of these young generation pro players. I started playing Counter Strike since beta 1.3 long before Rainbow Six Ravenshield was released (if you even know what that is). I just said that imho I feel like people are relying to much on c4. Out of all options it's getting the most picked item on the defending team. And just because one player is playing good with a shield doesn't mean it's not getting harder and harder to play as shield
A neat trick I learned as a shield (works in certain situations) is when they pull out a nitro, whip out your pistol and neutralize them before they get to detonate. Works every time!

...mostly...
Messaggio originale di Viper:
A neat trick I learned as a shield (works in certain situations) is when they pull out a nitro, whip out your pistol and neutralize them before they get to detonate. Works every time!

...mostly...
Unless you miss or they run behind cover. Then you wasted time, time that you could have used to run away. And now you're too slow to escape.
Ultima modifica da Zagger; 5 ago 2016, ore 15:48
Honestly C4 should be a trap, not a toss-able object.
Make it be planted in short range (less than 2 meters).

Tossing c4 10 meters away just breaks so many shield using characters...
It is true that too many operators have C4 at this point. Shields were never OP and honestly, even if teams are totally even sill wise, shields are at a complete disadvantage because how easy it is to just throw c4. So yes, nitro cells should exist, but no, not half the operators should have it.

My solution would be that rather than having this BF4 style "throw and blow" C4, it become more like a trap then a grenade. Right now C4 is always just thrown and detonated in the same 2 seconds and thats why shields are op. I would say personally if they made there be a 2-3 second arming time for C4 after it's thrown that would help. If this happened, shields would become too hard to kill. The solution? Make the amount of body vulnerable higher. (Decrease shield size or change how the op holds it to reveal more shootable parts)
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Data di pubblicazione: 4 ago 2016, ore 23:51
Messaggi: 79