Thermite breach does ZERO damage- fix this

[Badass_Ben]

This is ACTUALLY insane

I was curious
So I went to test

Where I was standing I was thinking:
This SHOULD kill me outright
I figured this will DEFINITELY do some damage though

Would it just be a scratch, would it be significant

It does ZERO damage

Yes, if you LICK the wall when it goes off it kills you
But this is ACTUALLY insane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWQgSrOqmlU

[Amogus]

Now, do this again, but actually stand up against the wall. I'm sure you'll find a completely different result.

[Badass_Ben]

引用自  Sir_Mossy ：

Now, do this again, but actually stand up against the wall. I'm sure you'll find a completely different result.

Not the point

THAT distance should STILL be fatal
Or AT LEAST heavily damaging

You SEE the debris FLYING through my character, yet does nothing

[Amogus]

引用自 Badass_Ben：

引用自  Sir_Mossy ：

Now, do this again, but actually stand up against the wall. I'm sure you'll find a completely different result.

Not the point

THAT distance should STILL be fatal
Or AT LEAST heavily damaging

You SEE the debris FLYING through my character, yet does nothing

It's for game balance. If a thermite charge decimated the entire room, he'd be OP.

I guess the concept of balance flies over your head, doesn't it?

[Badass_Ben]

引用自  Sir_Mossy ：

引用自 Badass_Ben：

Not the point

THAT distance should STILL be fatal
Or AT LEAST heavily damaging

You SEE the debris FLYING through my character, yet does nothing

It's for game balance. If a thermite charge decimated the entire room, he'd be OP.

I guess the concept of balance flies over your head, doesn't it?

Considering that Thermite is currently the weakest attacker, after Glaz
(See latest Win-Deltas)

No it doesnt
Thermite (and attackers as a side) need a bit of a buff anyways

A thermite charge (And breach charges) SHOULD help clear out a room

And im not asking for MASSIVE range

But as shown in the clip- that should be fatal, or near fatal damage

[RcsPcsN1]

引用自 Badass_Ben：

引用自  Sir_Mossy ：

It's for game balance. If a thermite charge decimated the entire room, he'd be OP.

I guess the concept of balance flies over your head, doesn't it?

Considering that Thermite is currently the weakest attacker, after Glaz
(See latest Win-Deltas)

No it doesnt
Thermite (and attackers as a side) need a bit of a buff anyways

A thermite charge (And breach charges) SHOULD help clear out a room

And im not asking for MASSIVE range

But as shown in the clip- that should be fatal, or near fatal damage

Stop cracking all these jokes man, you're gonna make me spit out my water. But in all seriousness if you'd stand closer it would almost indefinitely kill/badly hurt you.

Now, once again, realism is not a balancing factor. Although this game is meant to be realistic to a point, it isn't meant to be fully realistic. In real life, yes, a breaching charge might kill someone should they be within 1-10 feet of the explosion, but is that gonna be fair to the defenders? No, it isn't, hence why they didn't make them like that.

Thermite is not the weakest attacker, he can make the biggest hole the quickest. Although riskier, that's what you are supposed to get with a high risk, high reward operator. This is comparable to ace and hibanas medium risk - medium reward ratio where they can do it from a far, but the hole is much smaller, you see the balance there right? Well, now that I have explained the reasoning behind this, I bid you a good day, happy travels :D

[Badass_Ben]

引用自 ReecesPiecesN1：

引用自 Badass_Ben：

Considering that Thermite is currently the weakest attacker, after Glaz
(See latest Win-Deltas)

No it doesnt
Thermite (and attackers as a side) need a bit of a buff anyways

A thermite charge (And breach charges) SHOULD help clear out a room

And im not asking for MASSIVE range

But as shown in the clip- that should be fatal, or near fatal damage

Stop cracking all these jokes man, you're gonna make me spit out my water. But in all seriousness if you'd stand closer it would almost indefinitely kill/badly hurt you.

Now, once again, realism is not a balancing factor. Although this game is meant to be realistic to a point, it isn't meant to be fully realistic. In real life, yes, a breaching charge might kill someone should they be within 1-10 feet of the explosion, but is that gonna be fair to the defenders? No, it isn't, hence why they didn't make them like that.

Thermite is not the weakest attacker, he can make the biggest hole the quickest. Although riskier, that's what you are supposed to get with a high risk, high reward operator. This is comparable to ace and hibanas medium risk - medium reward ratio where they can do it from a far, but the hole is much smaller, you see the balance there right? Well, now that I have explained the reasoning behind this, I bid you a good day, happy travels :D

What is "fair"?

If you refer to balance, balance is currently outta wack, in favor of Defenders

A reason for this is the rather pitiful state of attacker utility
Defenders will always have an inherent intel advantage, the point of breach charges and what not is to deliver such force and power that Defenders are "thrown off balance" so to speak

ACTUALLY, the reason it is like this, apparently, is that it was "too easy for teammates to grief themselves off Thermites charges"
- Ubi Rep

Balancing items around GRIEFING isnt balancing

[Amogus]

引用自 Badass_Ben：

引用自 ReecesPiecesN1：

Stop cracking all these jokes man, you're gonna make me spit out my water. But in all seriousness if you'd stand closer it would almost indefinitely kill/badly hurt you.

Now, once again, realism is not a balancing factor. Although this game is meant to be realistic to a point, it isn't meant to be fully realistic. In real life, yes, a breaching charge might kill someone should they be within 1-10 feet of the explosion, but is that gonna be fair to the defenders? No, it isn't, hence why they didn't make them like that.

Thermite is not the weakest attacker, he can make the biggest hole the quickest. Although riskier, that's what you are supposed to get with a high risk, high reward operator. This is comparable to ace and hibanas medium risk - medium reward ratio where they can do it from a far, but the hole is much smaller, you see the balance there right? Well, now that I have explained the reasoning behind this, I bid you a good day, happy travels :D

What is "fair"?

If you refer to balance, balance is currently outta wack, in favor of Defenders

A reason for this is the rather pitiful state of attacker utility
Defenders will always have an inherent intel advantage, the point of breach charges and what not is to deliver such force and power that Defenders are "thrown off balance" so to speak

ACTUALLY, the reason it is like this, apparently, is that it was "too easy for teammates to grief themselves off Thermites charges"
- Ubi Rep

Balancing items around GRIEFING isnt balancing

And the "thrown off balance" is that there is a gaping hole in their site that attackers can take advantage of. How can you not understand that blowing down a wall and having sight line of site is a very strong benefit for attackers.

Also, as to your idiotic point about the win deltas/pick rates, you didn't bother to look at pre-Ace statistics of Thermite. Thermite had a about 50% pick rate and a about -1% win delta before Ace was added. After Ace was released, his pick rate sunk to under 20% and his win delta shrunk as a result. Nothing was changed about Thermite in the least between now and then, yet his win delta shrunk after Ace was released.

You are ignoring the fact that Ace is a more versatile Thermite and that he is getting nerfed because of said powerful status. His release made it so that Thermite was picked less, which affects the chart greatly.

[Badass_Ben]

引用自  Sir_Mossy ：

引用自 Badass_Ben：

What is "fair"?

If you refer to balance, balance is currently outta wack, in favor of Defenders

A reason for this is the rather pitiful state of attacker utility
Defenders will always have an inherent intel advantage, the point of breach charges and what not is to deliver such force and power that Defenders are "thrown off balance" so to speak

ACTUALLY, the reason it is like this, apparently, is that it was "too easy for teammates to grief themselves off Thermites charges"
- Ubi Rep

Balancing items around GRIEFING isnt balancing

And the "thrown off balance" is that there is a gaping hole in their site that attackers can take advantage of. How can you not understand that blowing down a wall and having sight line of site is a very strong benefit for attackers.

Also, as to your idiotic point about the win deltas/pick rates, you didn't bother to look at pre-Ace statistics of Thermite. Thermite had a about 50% pick rate and a about -1% win delta before Ace was added. After Ace was released, his pick rate sunk to under 20% and his win delta shrunk as a result. Nothing was changed about Thermite in the least between now and then, yet his win delta shrunk after Ace was released.

You are ignoring the fact that Ace is a more versatile Thermite and that he is getting nerfed because of said powerful status. His release made it so that Thermite was picked less, which affects the chart greatly.

Except, Defenders can take advantage of it too since there is no damage, practically speaking (nobody kisses a thermite wall).
Opening a new sight-line or rotate, in of itself, is not a one-sided advantage.
Plenty of times, a new LoS gets opened, and Attackers INSTANTLY get wrecked from it
Or defenders then push through it to shoot attackers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IocB2rJseU
This clip to me, is all sorts of absurd and shows why there needs to be MUCH more damage with a breach

And now the insults, how mature

Pick Rate and Win Rate are independent values
Yes, his pick rate went down as expected with ACE

And maybe his Win rate was SLIGHTLY higher before as metas change, but its still negative
And its bad this season



Frankly, I see no reason to NOT improve the damage of his breach charge
Would help him standout in comparison to other breachers as THE BIG BANG breacher

But as it stands, breach charges of all sorts are massively underwhelming

[RcsPcsN1]

引用自 Badass_Ben：

引用自 ReecesPiecesN1：

Stop cracking all these jokes man, you're gonna make me spit out my water. But in all seriousness if you'd stand closer it would almost indefinitely kill/badly hurt you.

Now, once again, realism is not a balancing factor. Although this game is meant to be realistic to a point, it isn't meant to be fully realistic. In real life, yes, a breaching charge might kill someone should they be within 1-10 feet of the explosion, but is that gonna be fair to the defenders? No, it isn't, hence why they didn't make them like that.

Thermite is not the weakest attacker, he can make the biggest hole the quickest. Although riskier, that's what you are supposed to get with a high risk, high reward operator. This is comparable to ace and hibanas medium risk - medium reward ratio where they can do it from a far, but the hole is much smaller, you see the balance there right? Well, now that I have explained the reasoning behind this, I bid you a good day, happy travels :D

What is "fair"?

If you refer to balance, balance is currently outta wack, in favor of Defenders

A reason for this is the rather pitiful state of attacker utility
Defenders will always have an inherent intel advantage, the point of breach charges and what not is to deliver such force and power that Defenders are "thrown off balance" so to speak

ACTUALLY, the reason it is like this, apparently, is that it was "too easy for teammates to grief themselves off Thermites charges"
- Ubi Rep

Balancing items around GRIEFING isnt balancing

It's only in favor of the defenders when they have no holes in their walls, something hard breachers are there for. A defender has a reinforced wall to their left, they feel protected. The wall to their left is now gone with 1-3 guns pointing in their direction, they no longer feel protected, understand?

And as for this intel advantage, bring nokk, IQ, thatcher or any other operator that is meant to, ya know, deal with intel operators? This "thrown off balance" thing is already done by blowing a massive gaping hole into the side of the area they're supposed to be defending. Although not literally throwing them off balance, it is in fact surprising them.

Finally, yes if it was able to do that then it would be easier to purposefully or accidentally kill teammates. Cause you have to think, if the enemy team has to be over 10 feet away to not die or get thrown of balance, then your team does as well, making you hide behind a wall rather then looking down the hole you just made as soon as it opened, wasting a bit of time you could have used shooting surprised enemies. Even if it was just for griefing purposes of nerfing that would be understandable cause you can't just make your teammates invulnerable to the explosive...

P.S. pick rate and win rate doesn't mean anything when you have Jager being one of (if not) the best operator in the game with the highest pick rate yet negative win rate...

[Badass_Ben]

引用自 ReecesPiecesN1：

引用自 Badass_Ben：

What is "fair"?

If you refer to balance, balance is currently outta wack, in favor of Defenders

A reason for this is the rather pitiful state of attacker utility
Defenders will always have an inherent intel advantage, the point of breach charges and what not is to deliver such force and power that Defenders are "thrown off balance" so to speak

ACTUALLY, the reason it is like this, apparently, is that it was "too easy for teammates to grief themselves off Thermites charges"
- Ubi Rep

Balancing items around GRIEFING isnt balancing

It's only in favor of the defenders when they have no holes in their walls, something hard breachers are there for. A defender has a reinforced wall to their left, they feel protected. The wall to their left is now gone with 1-3 guns pointing in their direction, they no longer feel protected, understand?

And as for this intel advantage, bring nokk, IQ, thatcher or any other operator that is meant to, ya know, deal with intel operators? This "thrown off balance" thing is already done by blowing a massive gaping hole into the side of the area they're supposed to be defending. Although not literally throwing them off balance, it is in fact surprising them.

Finally, yes if it was able to do that then it would be easier to purposefully or accidentally kill teammates. Cause you have to think, if the enemy team has to be over 10 feet away to not die or get thrown of balance, then your team does as well, making you hide behind a wall rather then looking down the hole you just made as soon as it opened, wasting a bit of time you could have used shooting surprised enemies. Even if it was just for griefing purposes of nerfing that would be understandable cause you can't just make your teammates invulnerable to the explosive...

Doesnt matter
Even with ZERO gadgets in the game, defenders will always have the intel advantage because they KNOW that Attackers will come to them

Attackers have no idea where a defender might be.

Gadgets mix that up, sure
But inherently, defenders will ALWAYS have the intel advantage
You cant really change that
Thats simply how attack/defend works

Attackers overcome this via things like frags, flashbangs, etc
Did you know that a pointman has a 90% chance of going down, when entering a room with a prepared defender in it? (Source- USMC Infantry)
The way "attackers" overcome this is
Shields
Frags
Flashbangs
Breaches



Thats not how directional charges work
The explosion radius on the "Attacker" side would be minimal, but massive on the defender side
Notice how debris blows INWARD, not outward
The graphics/visuals are reasonably realistic for the charge, but its actual performance is abysmal.


In your scenario, lets start with a basic 1v1 for simplicity sake
In the current form of the game, how does opening a new angle help the attacker, at all?
The defender can just turn towards it, and you have a basic 1v1 gunfight
It does nothing to help the attacker WIN the fight
It doesnt
-Disorient
-Stun
-Damage
the defender

[Copy & Cat]

They changed breach charge explosions a few seasons ago, so attackers could stay closer to it and push faster

[Badass_Ben]

引用自 *revolver noises*：

They changed breach charge explosions a few seasons ago, so attackers could stay closer to it and push faster

That part is fine
But a breach should actually HELP the push

Attackers should be able to flow through a breach as it goes off, knowing they have an advantage against any immediate threat DUE to the breach disorienting/damaging nearby defenders

[✵ Julianne ✵]

He used to kill people before the nerf with it, he got nerfed because it was causing too many accidental team kills.

[Wiesell]

Just... why do you want to buff thermite exothermic breach charge? Do you not watch the open walls after it got blown up so people rush outside? Usually if you use thermite, you would blow up certain walls where defenders would know. His rifle is good, his gadgets are on par with his skills. Really? You want to buff him again. It's almost like the L85A2, where it is decent and should not be tweaked further.

[RcsPcsN1]

引用自 Badass_Ben：

引用自 ReecesPiecesN1：

It's only in favor of the defenders when they have no holes in their walls, something hard breachers are there for. A defender has a reinforced wall to their left, they feel protected. The wall to their left is now gone with 1-3 guns pointing in their direction, they no longer feel protected, understand?

And as for this intel advantage, bring nokk, IQ, thatcher or any other operator that is meant to, ya know, deal with intel operators? This "thrown off balance" thing is already done by blowing a massive gaping hole into the side of the area they're supposed to be defending. Although not literally throwing them off balance, it is in fact surprising them.

Finally, yes if it was able to do that then it would be easier to purposefully or accidentally kill teammates. Cause you have to think, if the enemy team has to be over 10 feet away to not die or get thrown of balance, then your team does as well, making you hide behind a wall rather then looking down the hole you just made as soon as it opened, wasting a bit of time you could have used shooting surprised enemies. Even if it was just for griefing purposes of nerfing that would be understandable cause you can't just make your teammates invulnerable to the explosive...

Doesnt matter
Even with ZERO gadgets in the game, defenders will always have the intel advantage because they KNOW that Attackers will come to them

Attackers have no idea where a defender might be.

Gadgets mix that up, sure
But inherently, defenders will ALWAYS have the intel advantage
You cant really change that
Thats simply how attack/defend works

Attackers overcome this via things like frags, flashbangs, etc
Did you know that a pointman has a 90% chance of going down, when entering a room with a prepared defender in it? (Source- USMC Infantry)
The way "attackers" overcome this is
Shields
Frags
Flashbangs
Breaches



Thats not how directional charges work
The explosion radius on the "Attacker" side would be minimal, but massive on the defender side
Notice how debris blows INWARD, not outward
The graphics/visuals are reasonably realistic for the charge, but its actual performance is abysmal.


In your scenario, lets start with a basic 1v1 for simplicity sake
In the current form of the game, how does opening a new angle help the attacker, at all?
The defender can just turn towards it, and you have a basic 1v1 gunfight
It does nothing to help the attacker WIN the fight
It doesnt
-Disorient
-Stun
-Damage
the defender

“It doesn’t matter that you made a good point about how there are operators meant to stop intel operators so I’m just gonna push my opinion without acknowledging yours”

You sir, are stubborn, to the point of literally ignoring my rebuttal just so you can sound like you’re even slightly correct, which is quite saddening I must say.

Now, as for what you said, yes defenders know that attackers are coming for them, but funny thing is THEY DON’T KNOW FROM WHERE.

The entire purpose of soft/hard breachers is to make the defenders keep guessing, cause when you have multiple angles to be shot from that leaves multiple options for the attackers to push from.

And uh, back to my earlier point, there are literally operators made to deny defenders intel. Everyone on attack has 2 drones that move and hide well, with only 1 defender operator having a moving drone confirmed from the start (echo) and the only one closest to that is mozzie, and his aren’t even confirmed to be used if the attackers don’t run into his spiders, while the rest of the cameras can’t move and are stuck in one spot, making them easy to avoid and take out.

Did you seriously just use an irl statistic to give you some sort of high ground about a video game? That’s your problem, you’re too focused on the realism rather then the fictional parts of Siege...

It’s a 1v1 scenario, defender has 2 doorways to watch for the last enemy. Last enemy turns out to be a thermite, and the thermite opens 2 walls, leaving the defender to watch 4 doorways now rather than 2. And if you haven’t noticed, you don’t have to stand right in front of the breach, you can place it, run, and set it off to make the defender look in that direction, and shoot said defender in the back.

Your entire argument is how you’d use it one way, that is straightforward, rather then looking at all of the other possibilities it gives the user itself as long as they aren’t as dumb as you seem to make them out as...

P.S. it literally does deal damage and makes a loud ringing sound, please fact check yourself before posting :D

Edit: missed the part about a blast radius. Although yes there will be debris going towards the room you set explosives against, it’s still C4 being blasted from the ATTACKERS side of the wall, to knock in the wall of the defenders. Although the explosives can be more directed towards what it’s placed on, it can’t send it ONLY in that direction...