shotguns aren't bad, you are

[Kissa Ninja]

the title says it.

[♂ keikaekay ♂]

Bashar Al-Assad の投稿を引用：

Assass1n の投稿を引用：

as a smoke main, I can say i've never had a problem with the shotgun in roughly 25ish hours on him.

same shotguns are really good with a smg secondary

Yep, as long as you have good recoil control and trigger discipline you can rely machine pistols for range.

Sledge, Mute, Smoke, Warden, Echo, Hibana, Vigil, Dokkaebi, and Amaru can all use shotgun and machine pistol combo.

[Kissa Ninja]

LMAO ZeDong の投稿を引用：

I literally ripped this off from another post.





Shotgun pellet spread patterns would add another variable of skill of memorizing the groupings of each shot like in CS:GO. I don't fully believe in fixed spread like the panic attack in TF2 or EVA-8 shotgun from Titanfall/Apex Legends would fit well in a game like Siege.

The Issue:

However there's also one major flaw of shotguns is that it's very difficult to kill enemies with the body covered except the head sticking out, especially at close ranges. The pellet spread is too large too simply consistently get reliable kills despite the fact you're aiming center mass.

Example:

A perfect scenario of this happening would be entering a room and pre-firing at a enemy hiding behind a desk. Say you're about <5m away from said target, but you're at an disadvantage due to shotguns not being able to headshot so you'll do around 70% less of the damage of landing 6 pellets. Shotguns are meant to be effective at close quarters, but due to the inability to headshot and limb penetration system would screw it up. The only times you would ever be able to get kills is when your enemy's chest is exposed which is a huge disadvantage despite you getting the surprise drop on the unaware enemy.

Possible Solution:

This is why tightening the shotgun pellet spread would reward players for placing their shots for precision and not rely on braindead hip-fire like in CoD or literally any other arcade FPS in the market. There isn't really a need for headshot multipliers if it were like this. This is why I used Tarkov/Insurgency as an example for shotgun spreads (except range since balancing revolves around smaller scaled map design).

However, it would be nice if they have shotgun chokes like in BF4 to modify your spreads. This means you can have a choice for tighter spread for accuracy. While larger spread for consistent hits that's great for hip-firing.

TL;DR

Tighter spread=rewards precision

No need for headshot multiplier.

Pellet spread patterns to memorize your groupings for every 2-4 shots for additional skill factor.

there are no tables that would create situation where the defending enemy has the upper hand and theres nothing you can do about it.
This can happen in various forms such as enemy is leaning behind a wall and only thing you can see is their head. But this doesnt happen if you play shotguns right.
If you know how to use them this isnt a problem

[CaseyAnthony]

Kissa Ninja の投稿を引用：

LMAO ZeDong の投稿を引用：

I literally ripped this off from another post.





Shotgun pellet spread patterns would add another variable of skill of memorizing the groupings of each shot like in CS:GO. I don't fully believe in fixed spread like the panic attack in TF2 or EVA-8 shotgun from Titanfall/Apex Legends would fit well in a game like Siege.

The Issue:

However there's also one major flaw of shotguns is that it's very difficult to kill enemies with the body covered except the head sticking out, especially at close ranges. The pellet spread is too large too simply consistently get reliable kills despite the fact you're aiming center mass.

Example:

A perfect scenario of this happening would be entering a room and pre-firing at a enemy hiding behind a desk. Say you're about <5m away from said target, but you're at an disadvantage due to shotguns not being able to headshot so you'll do around 70% less of the damage of landing 6 pellets. Shotguns are meant to be effective at close quarters, but due to the inability to headshot and limb penetration system would screw it up. The only times you would ever be able to get kills is when your enemy's chest is exposed which is a huge disadvantage despite you getting the surprise drop on the unaware enemy.

Possible Solution:

This is why tightening the shotgun pellet spread would reward players for placing their shots for precision and not rely on braindead hip-fire like in CoD or literally any other arcade FPS in the market. There isn't really a need for headshot multipliers if it were like this. This is why I used Tarkov/Insurgency as an example for shotgun spreads (except range since balancing revolves around smaller scaled map design).

However, it would be nice if they have shotgun chokes like in BF4 to modify your spreads. This means you can have a choice for tighter spread for accuracy. While larger spread for consistent hits that's great for hip-firing.

TL;DR

Tighter spread=rewards precision

No need for headshot multiplier.

Pellet spread patterns to memorize your groupings for every 2-4 shots for additional skill factor.

there are no tables that would create situation where the defending enemy has the upper hand and theres nothing you can do about it.
This can happen in various forms such as enemy is leaning behind a wall and only thing you can see is their head. But this doesnt happen if you play shotguns right.
If you know how to use them this isnt a problem

what do you mean by "play shotguns right?" is your idea of playing shotguns right not letting enemies get to walls? that's a little difficult to do when you can only deal damage from 0-5 meters.

[♂ keikaekay ♂]

Did you even read the example and how tighter spreads can actually help?

You've literally been berating any opposition in your argument with ONLY your own experience which is not the most credible source of evidence so that the rest of us understand.

The overwhelming majority want shotguns to be buffed so they're more reliable instead of a glorified breaching tool.

Because of your stubborn demeanor you created an flame war in the last post made by user twunny phaiv and which eventually became locked.

[twunny phaiv]

!𝕂𝕀ℝ𝔸 の投稿を引用：

Kissa Ninja の投稿を引用：

Shotguns suffer dmg dropoff greatly at that distance

I said 15m because someone made a post complaining about not being able to hit shots with shotguns from 15m away

Source please. Because I don't remember literally anybody citing the distance of 15 meters in any of their posts. Besides you, of course.

[Copy & Cat]

Kissa Ninja の投稿を引用：

there are no tables that would create situation where the defending enemy has the upper hand and theres nothing you can do about it.
This can happen in various forms such as enemy is leaning behind a wall and only thing you can see is their head. But this doesnt happen if you play shotguns right.
If you know how to use them this isnt a problem

Sorry come again? how is the enemy hiding behind cover with only an exposed head not a problem shotguns even at close range?

[CaseyAnthony]

Fatal Cutie の投稿を引用：

Kissa Ninja の投稿を引用：

there are no tables that would create situation where the defending enemy has the upper hand and theres nothing you can do about it.
This can happen in various forms such as enemy is leaning behind a wall and only thing you can see is their head. But this doesnt happen if you play shotguns right.
If you know how to use them this isnt a problem

Sorry come again? how is the enemy hiding behind cover with only an exposed head not a problem shotguns even at close range?

i think he's trying to say that you should have killed the guy before he reached the cover? Despite the fact that you'd have to close the gap across open terrain to do that. I seriously can't see how what he said was relevant to this entire thread.

[Kissa Ninja]

CaseyAnthony の投稿を引用：

Kissa Ninja の投稿を引用：

there are no tables that would create situation where the defending enemy has the upper hand and theres nothing you can do about it.
This can happen in various forms such as enemy is leaning behind a wall and only thing you can see is their head. But this doesnt happen if you play shotguns right.
If you know how to use them this isnt a problem

what do you mean by "play shotguns right?" is your idea of playing shotguns right not letting enemies get to walls? that's a little difficult to do when you can only deal damage from 0-5 meters.

First of shotguns can deal damage as far as other guns can but their damage drop off is way more drastic. They have a effective damage range at 10m that varies for each shotgun. If an enemy is at 25 hp or 40 you can kill them with ease.
Most people i kill with shotguns are always aimed at their body. It is very rare that i kill someone who is totally covered. Enemies will always try to stay behind cover but in game like siege they also have to move at some point. You can put all kinds of pressure on them and with shotguns its sometimes best to think your path to enemies carefully.
Give enemies time to react to you the more time they have is thinking about their cover.

[Kissa Ninja]

LMAO ZeDong の投稿を引用：

Did you even read the example and how tighter spreads can actually help?

You've literally been berating any opposition in your argument with ONLY your own experience which is not the most credible source of evidence so that the rest of us understand.

The overwhelming majority want shotguns to be buffed so they're more reliable instead of a glorified breaching tool.

Because of your stubborn demeanor you created an flame war in the last post made by user twunny phaiv and which eventually became locked.

I think majority of the people cant play shotguns correctly.

[Kissa Ninja]

Fatal Cutie の投稿を引用：

Kissa Ninja の投稿を引用：

there are no tables that would create situation where the defending enemy has the upper hand and theres nothing you can do about it.
This can happen in various forms such as enemy is leaning behind a wall and only thing you can see is their head. But this doesnt happen if you play shotguns right.
If you know how to use them this isnt a problem

Sorry come again? how is the enemy hiding behind cover with only an exposed head not a problem shotguns even at close range?

its the distance that matters. A doc 50m away can stay there all day long but im not challenging him. I will find a way to him 1 way or another.
If a enemy is behind cover i will find a way to him. there is never a situation where the enemy is totally safe.

[CaseyAnthony]

Kissa Ninja の投稿を引用：

CaseyAnthony の投稿を引用：

what do you mean by "play shotguns right?" is your idea of playing shotguns right not letting enemies get to walls? that's a little difficult to do when you can only deal damage from 0-5 meters.

First of shotguns can deal damage as far as other guns can but their damage drop off is way more drastic. They have a effective damage range at 10m that varies for each shotgun. If an enemy is at 25 hp or 40 you can kill them with ease.
Most people i kill with shotguns are always aimed at their body. It is very rare that i kill someone who is totally covered. Enemies will always try to stay behind cover but in game like siege they also have to move at some point. You can put all kinds of pressure on them and with shotguns its sometimes best to think your path to enemies carefully.
Give enemies time to react to you the more time they have is thinking about their cover.

Since you don't seem to have used shotguns in the game of Rainbow Six Siege, I decided to lend you a hand because I love helping new players! Here are what the spreads look like when a player uses shotguns properly (that is to say with the "laser sight" underbarrel attachment attached and without ADS [aiming down the sights of your weapon.]):

M590A1 (this shotgun belongs to the SAS operator Smoke) from 5 meters.[i.imgur.com]

M590A1 (this shotgun belongs to the SAS operator Smoke) from 10 meters.[i.imgur.com]

M1014 (this shotgun belongs to the FBI operator Pulse) from 5 meters.[i.imgur.com]

M1014 (this shotgun belongs to the FBI operator Pulse) from 10 meters.[i.imgur.com]

As you can see, the amount of pellets in an area reduces (gets smaller) dramatically (by a lot) as you get further away from your target. Now, you may have difficulty (a hard time) extrapolating (figuring out) any meaning from this since you don't appear to have ever used a shotgun. That's okay, though, we all have to start somewhere! :) I'll help you to understand it to try and get you off on the right foot in this wonderful FPS (first person shooter) called Rainbow Six Siege. You see, shotguns work by shooting individual pellets. When each pellet hits, that gives you the damage seen on the gun in the menu. Now at 5 meters, it wouldn't be a problem hitting your target because all of the pellets hit. However, the number of pellets hitting your target decreases (goes down) vastly (by a lot) at 10 meters. Thus, it is very difficult to kill even a very wounded (hurt) enemy (somebody on the other team) with a shotgun at distances farther than about 5 meters. Let me know if I can help you with any other basic game concepts, I love helping out new players! :)

[CaseyAnthony]

Kissa Ninja の投稿を引用：

Fatal Cutie の投稿を引用：

Sorry come again? how is the enemy hiding behind cover with only an exposed head not a problem shotguns even at close range?

its the distance that matters. A doc 50m away can stay there all day long but im not challenging him. I will find a way to him 1 way or another.
If a enemy is behind cover i will find a way to him. there is never a situation where the enemy is totally safe.

friend they can fire at you as well, and will be able to hit you and deal more damage from a much longer range

[Copy & Cat]

Kissa Ninja の投稿を引用：

Fatal Cutie の投稿を引用：

Sorry come again? how is the enemy hiding behind cover with only an exposed head not a problem shotguns even at close range?

its the distance that matters. A doc 50m away can stay there all day long but im not challenging him. I will find a way to him 1 way or another.
If a enemy is behind cover i will find a way to him. there is never a situation where the enemy is totally safe.

*sigh* please re-read what i wrote, i did specify close range and cover, not long-range open fields against enemies that won't shoot back. I never mentioned long range issues with shotguns please stop bringing that up when we are talking about their consistency at close range, you are just dodging the subject

[Kissa Ninja]

CaseyAnthony の投稿を引用：

Kissa Ninja の投稿を引用：

First of shotguns can deal damage as far as other guns can but their damage drop off is way more drastic. They have a effective damage range at 10m that varies for each shotgun. If an enemy is at 25 hp or 40 you can kill them with ease.
Most people i kill with shotguns are always aimed at their body. It is very rare that i kill someone who is totally covered. Enemies will always try to stay behind cover but in game like siege they also have to move at some point. You can put all kinds of pressure on them and with shotguns its sometimes best to think your path to enemies carefully.
Give enemies time to react to you the more time they have is thinking about their cover.

Since you don't seem to have used shotguns in the game of Rainbow Six Siege, I decided to lend you a hand because I love helping new players! Here are what the spreads look like when a player uses shotguns properly (that is to say with the "laser sight" underbarrel attachment attached and without ADS [aiming down the sights of your weapon.]):

M590A1 (this shotgun belongs to the SAS operator Smoke) from 5 meters.[i.imgur.com]

M590A1 (this shotgun belongs to the SAS operator Smoke) from 10 meters.[i.imgur.com]

M1014 (this shotgun belongs to the FBI operator Pulse) from 5 meters.[i.imgur.com]

M1014 (this shotgun belongs to the FBI operator Pulse) from 10 meters.[i.imgur.com]

As you can see, the amount of pellets in an area reduces (gets smaller) dramatically (by a lot) as you get further away from your target. Now, you may have difficulty (a hard time) extrapolating (figuring out) any meaning from this since you don't appear to have ever used a shotgun. That's okay, though, we all have to start somewhere! :) I'll help you to understand it to try and get you off on the right foot in this wonderful FPS (first person shooter) called Rainbow Six Siege. You see, shotguns work by shooting individual pellets. When each pellet hits, that gives you the damage seen on the gun in the menu. Now at 5 meters, it wouldn't be a problem hitting your target because all of the pellets hit. However, the number of pellets hitting your target decreases (goes down) vastly (by a lot) at 10 meters. Thus, it is very difficult to kill even a very wounded (hurt) enemy (somebody on the other team) with a shotgun at distances farther than about 5 meters. Let me know if I can help you with any other basic game concepts, I love helping out new players! :)

no
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjV9wkMZmcE&list=LLg2A6RLlbc9BuiJjXK1EbiA&index=25&t=0s

[Kissa Ninja]

No running in the quarentine の投稿を引用：

Kissa Ninja の投稿を引用：

its the distance that matters. A doc 50m away can stay there all day long but im not challenging him. I will find a way to him 1 way or another.
If a enemy is behind cover i will find a way to him. there is never a situation where the enemy is totally safe.

*sigh* please re-read what i wrote, i did specify close range and cover, not long-range open fields against enemies that won't shoot back. I never mentioned long range issues with shotguns please stop bringing that up when we are talking about their consistency at close range, you are just dodging the subject

"stop bringing that up when we are talking about their consistency at close range"
if you cant kill someone at close range, you suck