Lets talk about kapkan traps

[Oh Deer]

I kinda like and hate this gadget.
Its good, it can make nice dmg or slow the enemy down.
But there is a lack of freedom.
You can only place it on doors and you must find a good spot for the trap.
Placing it on windows is.......dumb.
Every enemy will see it clearly.

What do you guys think?

[twunny phaiv]

Only useful against unaware players, which is terrible design in my opinion. They need to be reworked to be more tactically viable and not just for catching blind players off guard. Same goes for Frost.

[Oh Deer]

Originally posted by twunny phaiv:

Only useful against unaware players, which is terrible design in my opinion. They need to be reworked to be more tactically viable and not just for catching blind players off guard. Same goes for Frost.

Im just a bit confuzed about kapkan.
His gadget is a trap, but you have the trigger and the explosive in 1 gadget.
This is only a support item and not a trap.
If you can place the explosive thing and the trigger separate, then its a real trap gadget.

Just a quick example:
Kapkan could have 3 invisible explosive tanks and 3 visible sticky laser trigger.
The explosive tanks can be placed on the floor and walls, but they dont explode if they get destroyed by shooting.

The sticky laser triggers are 2 things.
One thing send the laser and the other thing received the laser.
Every objective with mass trigger it (drones).

Every explosive tank can have 1 number (1,2 or 3).
Same thing for the triggers.
So he can build 1 big trap, 2 medium traps or 3 small traps.

[twunny phaiv]

Originally posted by ShyN3ko:

Originally posted by twunny phaiv:

Only useful against unaware players, which is terrible design in my opinion. They need to be reworked to be more tactically viable and not just for catching blind players off guard. Same goes for Frost.

Im just a bit confuzed about kapkan.
His gadget is a trap, but you have the trigger and the explosive in 1 gadget.
This is only a support item and not a trap.
If you can place the explosive thing and the trigger separate, then its a real trap gadget.

Just a quick example:
Kapkan could have 3 invisible explosive tanks and 3 visible sticky laser trigger.
The explosive tanks can be placed on the floor and walls, but they dont explode if they get destroyed by shooting.

The sticky laser triggers are 2 things.
One thing send the laser and the other thing received the laser.
Every objective with mass trigger it (drones).

Every explosive tank can have 1 number (1,2 or 3).
Same thing for the triggers.
So he can build 1 big trap, 2 medium traps or 3 small traps.

This is an interesting idea, but I don't know if it would work better as a whole new operator or not. And it would still have the same issue as the current version, the trigger itself would only work against unaware players.

Here's my rework idea:
-Change the positioning so that the traps are completely invisible from the other side of the door/window (think like Ela's mines)
-Bring back the old red laser
-Reduce trap count to 3

So now, they serve a completely different role. Currently, they're used to deal damage to unaware players. That's it, the only other utility they bring is sound cues. Now, they're more like a Goyo shield or Castle barricade in the fact that they're easily visible but provide a roadblock that the attackers must adapt around, and are countered by strategy rather than using your eyes for half a second.

[Oh Deer]

Originally posted by twunny phaiv:

Originally posted by ShyN3ko:

Im just a bit confuzed about kapkan.
His gadget is a trap, but you have the trigger and the explosive in 1 gadget.
This is only a support item and not a trap.
If you can place the explosive thing and the trigger separate, then its a real trap gadget.

Just a quick example:
Kapkan could have 3 invisible explosive tanks and 3 visible sticky laser trigger.
The explosive tanks can be placed on the floor and walls, but they dont explode if they get destroyed by shooting.

The sticky laser triggers are 2 things.
One thing send the laser and the other thing received the laser.
Every objective with mass trigger it (drones).

Every explosive tank can have 1 number (1,2 or 3).
Same thing for the triggers.
So he can build 1 big trap, 2 medium traps or 3 small traps.

This is an interesting idea, but I don't know if it would work better as a whole new operator or not. And it would still have the same issue as the current version, the trigger itself would only work against unaware players.

Here's my rework idea:
-Change the positioning so that the traps are completely invisible from the other side of the door/window (think like Ela's mines)
-Bring back the old red laser
-Reduce trap count to 3

So now, they serve a completely different role. Currently, they're used to deal damage to unaware players. That's it, the only other utility they bring is sound cues. Now, they're more like a Goyo shield or Castle barricade in the fact that they're easily visible but provide a roadblock that the attackers must adapt around, and are countered by strategy rather than using your eyes for half a second.

We could just combine both ideas :)

[twunny phaiv]

Originally posted by ShyN3ko:

Originally posted by twunny phaiv:

This is an interesting idea, but I don't know if it would work better as a whole new operator or not. And it would still have the same issue as the current version, the trigger itself would only work against unaware players.

Here's my rework idea:
-Change the positioning so that the traps are completely invisible from the other side of the door/window (think like Ela's mines)
-Bring back the old red laser
-Reduce trap count to 3

So now, they serve a completely different role. Currently, they're used to deal damage to unaware players. That's it, the only other utility they bring is sound cues. Now, they're more like a Goyo shield or Castle barricade in the fact that they're easily visible but provide a roadblock that the attackers must adapt around, and are countered by strategy rather than using your eyes for half a second.

We could just combine both ideas :)

I don't know, that might be too complex. I do really like the idea of traps with separate triggers and more advanced positioning, but I wanted to keep a Kapkan rework fairly simple.

[SirPotato]

I only use Kapkan when the site is ClubHouse's Basement, so I place about 3 of EDDs on the garage and kitchen to get free dmg ! Literally the only time his traps work (or when it's late late round)

[UbiYubble]

Originally posted by twunny phaiv:

Only useful against unaware players, which is terrible design in my opinion. They need to be reworked to be more tactically viable and not just for catching blind players off guard. Same goes for Frost.

Why do you feel it's poorly designed? Surprisingly players still run through doors and eat Kapkan traps, even though they know he's on the enemy team.

[SirPotato]

Originally posted by UbiYubble:

Originally posted by twunny phaiv:

Only useful against unaware players, which is terrible design in my opinion. They need to be reworked to be more tactically viable and not just for catching blind players off guard. Same goes for Frost.

Why do you feel it's poorly designed? Surprisingly players still run through doors and eat Kapkan traps, even though they know he's on the enemy team.

Many players are used to him, so they know exactly where his traps are, when you chose Kapkan or Frost you just wish the enemy is blind and move on, not like Lesion who still traps almost everyone !

[twunny phaiv]

Originally posted by UbiYubble:

Originally posted by twunny phaiv:

Only useful against unaware players, which is terrible design in my opinion. They need to be reworked to be more tactically viable and not just for catching blind players off guard. Same goes for Frost.

Why do you feel it's poorly designed? Surprisingly players still run through doors and eat Kapkan traps, even though they know he's on the enemy team.

Yes, bad players do that. He has absolutely zero tactical viability, which is why he's never picked in Pro League. He's only used in the hopes that you can maybe get 50-100 damage off and clean up with his decent loadout.

[Nomad]

i haphazardly place them around the map near obj and near common entry areas for attackers. I at least get a few trips and have gotten several kills from them. I'm predominantly a casual player but see alot of gold and plat players in my play throughs and alot of these guys are either still in sweat mode from ranked or are warming up for ranked, so my strats with kap are kinda still valid. The traps basically work best when you don't place them close together. If a guy trips one, then he'll look at the doors near him in case he hits a second. Place them at random doors so that they will become complacent again and either die or allow another teammate to trip more.

[Copy & Cat]

oh god leave him and frost alone

[twunny phaiv]

Originally posted by Fatal Cutie:

oh god leave him and frost alone

no