SOLVED - Is operator "Kapkan" OR his nickname Turkic?

[KuraiKiraa]

So:

Russian language has decent amount of Turkic originated words due to the fact that Russian people had continuous relationships with Turkic and Mongolic peoples. So they have some derived words.

Today, I read that operator Kapkan's nickname means "trap" in Russian. Which ringed a bell in my mind instantly!

Because to "kap"(kapmak, in modern Turkish) mean "to seize, grab, catch, snatch". Even in "Second Turkic Khaganate"(630-682 AD.) there was a Khan named "Kapgan Khagan" because he was a conqueror. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qapaghan_Qaghan

Also in modern Turkish, there is a word as "kapan" which means "snare, trap". (or literally, "thing that cathces-seizes-snatches-grabs")
Btw, that "evolution of sibilancy" in modern Turkish is a well known phenomenon.

Examples are(old/central asian Turkic-->Modern Turkish):
kelgen--> gelen
uçkan--> uçan
bilgen--> bilen
yalgan/jalgan-->yalan
tabışgan--> tavşan

Not the best examples but..Yeah..

So, what do you think?

PS: First time we encounter a written example of the word "to kap-" is at book "Irk Bitig"(900 AD) as:

toġan kuş tabışkan kapmış [doğan kuşu tavşan yakalamış] (the bird "falcon" captured a rabbit)


UPDATE: Apparently, yes. It actually is Turkic. https://www.reddit.com/r/etymology/comments/8uawpr/is_russian_word_kapkan_derived_from_turkic/e1e49as/

[Stat1c]

Kapkan means trap in Russian, sort of like a bear trap.

Edit: Frost traps look and operate more like bear traps than kapkans traps which makes me wonder how much time ubisoft puts into ops.

[Thorstorm]

Doesn't it means trap in Russian?

[Vampdreamer]

OP you do realise that Mongolia is a seperate country that has nothing to do with Turkey or it's history right?

[Vampdreamer]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Stayin_Alive:

Kapkan means trap in Russian, sort of like a bear trap.

Edit: Frost traps look and operate more like bear traps than kapkans traps which makes me wonder how much time ubisoft puts into ops.

Never thought of that. But you're absolutely right.

[NIKFS]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von CyberPunk80s:

OP you do realise that Mongolia is a seperate country that has nothing to do with Turkey or it's history right?

you need to seperate turkey and the ethnicity "turkic" as much as modern day turkey likes to act that way... they arent the only turks in history

other examples would be that "celts" are often viewed as the original population of the british isles in popculture, yet there were tribes of celts all over europe in the middle ages, all of them distinct from each other but all still categorized as "celts", or what i was talking earlier about, maybe youve heard the english being referred to as "anglo saxons" before? 3 states in germany still contain the words "saxony" showing that old relationsship there, there are probably even more examples that i cant think of right now though

[Vampdreamer]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von NIK_F_S:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von CyberPunk80s:

OP you do realise that Mongolia is a seperate country that has nothing to do with Turkey or it's history right?

you need to seperate turkey and the ethnicity "turkic" as much as modern day turkey likes to act that way... they arent the only turks in history

other examples would be that "celts" are often viewed as the original population of the british isles in popculture, yet there were tribes of celts all over europe in the middle ages, all of them distinct from each other but all still categorized as "celts", or what i was talking earlier about, maybe youve heard the english being referred to as "anglo saxons" before? 3 states in germany still contain the words "saxony" showing that old relationsship there, there are probably even more examples that i cant think of right now though

Yeah i don't know that much about that subect to be honest. I just know that the first time mongolians interracted with Turks was sometime in 1243 with the invasion of Anatolia, were Turks were chase out from Mongolians. Other than that i have never been taught of different Turks, perhaps you know better.

[Dumbphone]

Word "Капкан" means "trap" in Russian

[NIKFS]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von CyberPunk80s:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von NIK_F_S:

you need to seperate turkey and the ethnicity "turkic" as much as modern day turkey likes to act that way... they arent the only turks in history

other examples would be that "celts" are often viewed as the original population of the british isles in popculture, yet there were tribes of celts all over europe in the middle ages, all of them distinct from each other but all still categorized as "celts", or what i was talking earlier about, maybe youve heard the english being referred to as "anglo saxons" before? 3 states in germany still contain the words "saxony" showing that old relationsship there, there are probably even more examples that i cant think of right now though

Yeah i don't know that much about that subect to be honest. I just know that the first time mongolians interracted with Turks was sometime in 1243 with the invasion of Anatolia, were Turks were chase out from Mongolians. Other than that i have never been taught of different Turks, perhaps you know better.

im no expert on this either, and i cant tell you if part of mongolia was of turkic ethnicity or not, was just pointing out that that ethnicity isnt limited to where turkey nowadays is ;)

[Vampdreamer]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von NIK_F_S:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von CyberPunk80s:

Yeah i don't know that much about that subect to be honest. I just know that the first time mongolians interracted with Turks was sometime in 1243 with the invasion of Anatolia, were Turks were chase out from Mongolians. Other than that i have never been taught of different Turks, perhaps you know better.

im no expert on this either, and i cant tell you if part of mongolia was of turkic ethnicity or not, was just pointing out that that ethnicity isnt limited to where turkey nowadays is ;)

Thanks, love learning new things :)

[KuraiKiraa]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von CyberPunk80s:

OP you do realise that Mongolia is a seperate country that has nothing to do with Turkey or it's history right?

Unfortunately you don't really know about Turks or Mongols bro...
" I just know that the first time mongolians interracted with Turks was sometime in 1243"
^ This, is so wrong on many levels

Let me summarize like that:
Turkic and Mongolic peoples were living norteastern Siberia, 2000+ years ago. Then some of them settled down in Mongolia. Theen, these Altaic peoples (Turks and Mongols, mostly) raided central asia, china and europe many time throught the history. Mostly Turks, until Genghis Khan. He made Mongols raid and settle down to west like Turks as well.

There is so much to learn. Just google it or read books of Jean Paul Roux. Even wikipedia may teach you lot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples

Stay curious!

[KuraiKiraa]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von NIK_F_S:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von CyberPunk80s:

OP you do realise that Mongolia is a seperate country that has nothing to do with Turkey or it's history right?

they arent the only turks in history

Yeap. The identity "Turk" always been a big challange for historians since Turks and Mongols(or lets just say "central asian nomads") didn't leave much written records. It just wasn't their thing

[Spude]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von NIK_F_S:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von CyberPunk80s:

Yeah i don't know that much about that subect to be honest. I just know that the first time mongolians interracted with Turks was sometime in 1243 with the invasion of Anatolia, were Turks were chase out from Mongolians. Other than that i have never been taught of different Turks, perhaps you know better.

im no expert on this either, and i cant tell you if part of mongolia was of turkic ethnicity or not, was just pointing out that that ethnicity isnt limited to where turkey nowadays is ;)

Acshksually:
First there is distintion to be made between Turkic language speaking people and actual Turkic people.
Turkic people originate from around Altai mountain region in Asia, near todays Mongolia. Due to being nomadic people they spread around to Central Asia. Some went to as far as Ural region in todays Russia forming Tatar numerous Tatar populations.
In Central Asia they mixed with local Iranid populations forming new tribes but keeping the more nomadic lifestyle of their eastern ancestors and their language, forming new dialects of Turkic languages. These are the ancestors of Kazakh, Uzbek, Kyrgyz and Turkmen people.

In around 600s Oghuz tribe from around todays Uzbekistan/Turkmenistan conquered land in Middle-East and pushed all the way to Anatolian peninsula where resided Eastern Roman Empire - Byzantine.
There these Oghuz Turks settled down and mixed with local people forming Anatolian Turks. Anatolia was fractured for a long time until Osmanoglu (Ottoman) family rise above the other families forming the Ottoman Empire and destroyed what was left of Byzantine.
What is bit related and interesting that Turkic people even today share mutual intelligibility: Azerbaijan people, Turkish people and Turkmen can udnerstand each other quite well.
Same thing with Kazakhs and Kyrgyz people.

In 1200s Genghis Khan united the Mongol tribes and started relentless push to west and south forming the Mongol Empire. What must be kept in mind that Mongol Empire was very multi-ethnic and multicultural empire, they were not all just Mongols even though genocides did happen.
Later on said Empire broke down to four smaller but still huge empires: Golden Horde in northwest in todays Central Asia and Russia, Chagatai Khanate in Central Asia, Ilkhanate in southwest (middle-east and todays Turkey basically) and Yuan dynasty in China.

Of these Golden Horde relates to topic. Since it was located mostly in todays Russia it housed numerous Tatar tribes and spoke Turkic languages. Golden Horde still had great influence in the area and forced numerous russian principalities to pay tributary.
Golden Horde was fractured to Kazan, Nogai and Crimean Khanate. This allowed Muscovy to rise above the rest and formed Russian Tsardom and began the conquest of their former masters.
Due to these conquests Russia has sizable Tatar (and thus muslim) population which have influenced todays Russia in language and what not.

[KuraiKiraa]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Spud-Mann:

In around 600s ....

Except this part, you are mostly correct. Congratz! It's kinda impressive:)

[Spude]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von KatayHan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Spud-Mann:

In around 600s ....

Except this part, you are mostly correct. Congratz! It's kinda impressive:)

Just checked it, yea. I mostly wrote this from memory. Been like two years since I researched this on my own.

[Vampdreamer]

Guys you are right, but you should have said that you are talking about proto-mongols and not mongols it would make things so much easier. I reaserched it my self you are completely right. But according to the historians those mongols are now referred to Proto-Mongols.
i love so much learning new things. thanks both of you.