A thread about Vigil ability and how to change it.

[saymyname]

Hi, i wanted to make a discussion about Vigil as operator, especially regarding his ability.

Note: This is a debate, not a diktat.
Feel free to politely add your opinion in comments and disagree/agree/give suggestions.

The actual idea behind an operator like Vigil was of a stealth roamer able to nullify the ability of the enemy to gain intel on his position.
Now obviously he fails in doing this:

- The statics can give away their position while other operators wouldn't even be seen on specific situations.

- Those statics grows as your drone gets closer to Vigil.
It makes spotting the actual Vigil position quite easy, especially for someone knowing the map (which is quite mandatory anyway so is a given).
If i had to suggest someone about how to spot a Vigil, i would (not joking here) tell him to use a drone.

How can we change that ?:
- The statics should be fixed rather than giving away Vigil distance to the drone

- The Glaz thermal sight shouldn't be able to spot him, but rather see it as a non highlighted object. To all those looking forward to yell me it doesn't make sense, it does.
Thermal sight have by definition a thermal camera to detect infrared emissions. Vigil ECM should be able to actually eliminate its thermal image (but not the actual scope image).
Or we can agree that as thermal scope (that can somehow detect heat through windows and smoke) glaz scope is really unrealistic and stop pretending R6 siege is Arma.

- The Lion scan shouldn't detect his movement, not because somehow Vigil is distorting physics and such, but because the ECM could easily wipe out of attacker augmented reality hud the frame highliting him just like with drones images of him.
In this case statics could appear in attackers hud as he moves to warn them and even grow higher as he is closer like it actually happens with drones normally.

Those changes will make Vigil far more consistant and solid as roamer and stealth operator, as well as giving Glaz/Lion a perfect counter.

Some suggested to extend the static appearance range as well, but that would IMHO make it quite OP as, it would be actually impossible to have a general idea of where he is hiding (especially is statics aren't giving away his distance from drones).

[abyss]

I agree. i also think that lion's gadget shouldn't be able to detect vigil when he is using his own gadget

[Drewskii]

I’ll add this to also




Stop asking for Vigil to be invisible to Lion’s drone. His ECM eliminates his image, not his actual physical body

[saymyname]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Abyss:

I agree. i also think that lion's gadget shouldn't be able to detect vigil when he is using his own gadget

I would rather see how Ubi ends up balancing Lion first.
I foresee a painful balancing for him.

But again, TECHNICALLY speaking, the drone based on echo could fail to give away his position due to ECM-7 removing his frame from attackers Hud.

It is definetly not a realism issue actually @Your Uber Driver

All the hardware that gets fooled by Vigil is actually seeing them.
The visible radiations are always caught just like the ifrared radiations and the returning echo of the sonar, but ECM is wiping the output by removing the image displayed by cameras.
So yeah, Vigil wiping out its frame from attackers hud is perfectly fine realistic wise.

Comparing it to a realistic situation, it would be the equivalent of actually removing the PING from the radar of a submarine using sonar to detect.

[abyss]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Your Uber Driver:

I’ll add this to also




Stop asking for Vigil to be invisible to Lion’s drone. His ECM eliminates his image, not his actual physical body

You can't know if Vigil is moving when you can't even detect him though.

[saymyname]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Abyss:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Your Uber Driver:

I’ll add this to also




Stop asking for Vigil to be invisible to Lion’s drone. His ECM eliminates his image, not his actual physical body

You can't know if Vigil is moving when you can't even detect him though.

Like explained in the post above, there's no issue because Vigil doesn't work with visible radiations as well as echo waves (otherwise he would be completely invisible).
He works by deleting the output of any camera.
That may as well apply to the tools that recieve data from Lion drone and create an augmented reality display for attackers by making Vigil highlighted position disappear from said Hud.

[Resyled]

Vigil should absolutely counter the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Lion drone and the reasoning has already been stated. Vigil isn't jamming the drone, he's jamming the operators equipment that allows the HUD to display the red outlines.

If you think this doesn't make sense then how exactly are all operators on Lions team actually getting this information ? Is he perfectly communicating it via speach to all other teamates ? It makes more sense that his drone is sending a signal to a HUD which should be jammed by Vigil.

The Glaz counter is also a great idea, because that's exactly how his scope works. It's creating a digital picture inside his optic. Right now Vigil doesn't even counter anyone. He just kinda counters drones and that's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it.

[saymyname]

Opprinnelig skrevet av ๖Resyled:

Vigil should absolutely counter the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Lion drone and the reasoning has already been stated. Vigil isn't jamming the drone, he's jamming the operators equipment that allows the HUD to display the red outlines.

If you think this doesn't make sense then how exactly are all operators on Lions team actually getting this information ? Is he perfectly communicating it via speach to all other teamates ? It makes more sense that his drone is sending a signal to a HUD which should be jammed by Vigil.

The Glaz counter is also a great idea, because that's exactly how his scope works. It's creating a digital picture inside his optic. Right now Vigil doesn't even counter anyone. He just kinda counters drones and that's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it.

Drones actually counter him.
You can tell where it is far more easily than you can actually do it with other operators due to the statics telling you even the distance.
It has also direct counters as IQ and Twitch, so i don't get why it isn't allowed to be a direct counter to other operators.

Regardless of being a digital picture printed on (probably it is considering it can highlight enemy through smoke and windows) or a built in termographic camera it makes sense that Vigil can wipe his thermal/digital image

[Nomad]

vigil gadget has no affect on lion gadget because vigil's gadget affects cameras. Lion's drone uses a sonic pulse, which is why when the pulse is active your character vibrates. Vigil's ability will have no affect on the drone. Mute's gadget jamming frequencies and it is the only counter to the drone. They are nerfing the drone ability in the upcoming patch. After the pulse is active and you move, you are spotted for the remainder of the active window currently, if you stop moving the pulse will stop highlighting you which is the change that will be added in the patch.

[Uncle Sam]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Black:

vigil gadget has no affect on lion gadget because vigil's gadget affects cameras. Lion's drone uses a sonic pulse, which is why when the pulse is active your character vibrates. Vigil's ability will have no affect on the drone. Mute's gadget jamming frequencies and it is the only counter to the drone. They are nerfing the drone ability in the upcoming patch. After the pulse is active and you move, you are spotted for the remainder of the active window currently, if you stop moving the pulse will stop highlighting you which is the change that will be added in the patch.

+ the cooldown it's moved from 10 secs to 20 secs and they removed one of his charges.

[buymybuttplug?]

Vigil is already a pretty good OP, not sure why people think he needs a buff.

[PFC Demigo [29th ID]]

Why can't people fking Educate yourself that Vigil's Ablity does NOT Hide Kinetic Vibration Movement from Lion and Thermal Vision!!!!

[saymyname]

Opprinnelig skrevet av ♋️LunarCainEX🐶:

Why can't people fking Educate yourself that Vigil's Ablity does NOT Hide Kinetic Vibration Movement from Lion and Thermal Vision!!!!

Why can't you fking educate yourself on how thermal vision and augmented reality hud output work and why realistically speaking Vigil gadget OUGHT TO elude both ? Or hell even read OP where it is explained.

- Thermal sights use a thermographic camera to detect infrared. ECM can eliminate Vigil image from any camera, including thermal camera.

- The ♥♥♥♥ can vibrate like an electronic dildo and even more. As soon as it detects movement it has to send info to attackers hud, that can see the enemy outlining.
Vigil can easly wipe out the frame from their hud.

People wants to educate others but barely know how to count to five xD

[TeaThree]

Opprinnelig skrevet av SAY_MY_NAME:

Opprinnelig skrevet av ♋️LunarCainEX🐶:

Why can't people fking Educate yourself that Vigil's Ablity does NOT Hide Kinetic Vibration Movement from Lion and Thermal Vision!!!!

Opprinnelig skrevet av Black:

vigil gadget has no affect on lion gadget because vigil's gadget affects cameras. Lion's drone uses a sonic pulse, which is why when the pulse is active your character vibrates. Vigil's ability will have no affect on the drone. Mute's gadget jamming frequencies and it is the only counter to the drone. They are nerfing the drone ability in the upcoming patch. After the pulse is active and you move, you are spotted for the remainder of the active window currently, if you stop moving the pulse will stop highlighting you which is the change that will be added in the patch.

Why can't you fking educate yourself on how thermal vision and augmented reality hud output work and why realistically speaking Vigil gadget OUGHT TO elude both ? Or hell even read OP where it is explained.

- Thermal sights use a thermographic camera to detect infrared. Camera = Elusion

- The ♥♥♥♥ can vibrate like an electronic dildo. As soon as it detects movement it has to send info to attackers hud, that can see the enemy outlining.
Vigil can easly wipe out the frame from their hud.

People wants to educate others but barely know how to count to five xD

I hate you because your right and I cant come up with any counter agruments and this is actually quite sound logic, only thing is distance tho. IDK how far the range in vigils thing is? Is it forever?

[Drewskii]

Vigil idea:

If his device is activated, it displays his location, but not the red outline around him, similar to Cav’s intel ability

[saymyname]

Opprinnelig skrevet av TedeuM:

Opprinnelig skrevet av SAY_MY_NAME:

Why can't you fking educate yourself on how thermal vision and augmented reality hud output work and why realistically speaking Vigil gadget OUGHT TO elude both ? Or hell even read OP where it is explained.

- Thermal sights use a thermographic camera to detect infrared. Camera = Elusion

- The ♥♥♥♥ can vibrate like an electronic dildo. As soon as it detects movement it has to send info to attackers hud, that can see the enemy outlining.
Vigil can easly wipe out the frame from their hud.

People wants to educate others but barely know how to count to five xD

I hate you because your right and I cant come up with any counter agruments and this is actually quite sound logic, only thing is distance tho. IDK how far the range in vigils thing is? Is it forever?

Honest...i like it. xD
Technically speaking jammers have a 300-500 ms radius in which they throw "garbage signals"
Assuming an obviously not existant overlycomplicated jammer that actually hack and corrupt the enemy hardware having the same range is not that stupid, especially considering it would still work ON THE HARDWARE by directly modifying the camera/hardware output rather than imput.

Balance wise i don't see why it shouldn't cover the whole map as long as when moving during lion it emits statics and glaz thermal scope can still see him as "object".