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Badacid.Velox Mar 3, 2016 @ 5:17pm

Surround Sound

Anyone have any idea on room surround sound as opposed to speakers and if it would actually work properly in VR? My gut says probably not but then I wonder - if you turn in a game then you hear whatever is behind you from your rear speakers so if you turn your head in VR could it do the same? I appreciate that your front speakers effectively become your rear speakers as you turn but wondering if there is any way for the game to intelligently work this out & play the sounds accordingly from the correct speakers?

As I say, guessing i'll need some surroundy type headphones but just wondered if this could work...

If anyone has used a DK2 etc and tried this, i'd love to hear from them. I guess if it did work, it'd only really work for games designed for VR as opposed to VorpX games?

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Showing 1-15 of 34 comments

NeptNutz Mar 3, 2016 @ 5:29pm

Headphones are essential for the full immersive experience in my opinion. Developers put a lot of effort into this, and many of the more nuanced details get lost without headphones. For instance, try just about any Half-Life game with headphones on, spin Gordon around a few times and you will see what I mean. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples of this.

Last edited by NeptNutz; Mar 3, 2016 @ 5:30pm

bmac1191 Mar 3, 2016 @ 5:32pm

A lot of surround sound headphones are simulated surround. I was wondering the same thing about a 7.1 system. I would think it would work though if it works with headphones.

Last edited by bmac1191; Mar 3, 2016 @ 5:32pm

Badacid.Velox Mar 3, 2016 @ 5:33pm

Originally posted by NeptNutz:
Headphones are essential for the full immersive experience in my opinion. Developers put a lot of effort into this, and many of the more nuanced details get lost without headphones. For instance, try just about any Half-Life game with headphones on, spin Gordon around a few times and you will see what I mean. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples of this.

You're probably right. My issue is how much headphones blanket out everything else. Sometimes need to be listening for the phone etc. I guess I could try with iPhone headphones or something that allow plenty of sound to bleed in when I need to listen for outside sounds.

Originally posted by bmac1191:
A lot of surround sound headphones are simulated surround. I was wondering the same thing about a 7.1 system. I would think it would work though if it works with headphones.

The difference with headphones is that they turn with you, but wall speakers don't which is why I think wall speakers probably won't work for surround. After all, how does your PC know if your speakers are moving with you or not. The more I think about it the less likely I think wall mounted surround would work.

Last edited by Badacid.Velox; Mar 3, 2016 @ 5:35pm

NeptNutz Mar 3, 2016 @ 5:34pm

Originally posted by Badacid.Velox:
Originally posted by bmac1191:
A lot of surround sound headphones are simulated surround. I was wondering the same thing about a 7.1 system. I would think it would work though if it works with headphones.

The difference with headphones is that they turn with you, but wall speakers don't which is why I think wall speakers probably won't work for surround. After all, how does your PC know if your speakers are moving with you or not. The more I think about it the less likely I think wall mounted surround would work.

I will admit, with a DK2, most of my VR experiences are seated experiences. I haven't considered the effect of moving in real space with a sound system. Perhaps fixed-point sound effects are a deficit in that regard. I don't know.

Last edited by NeptNutz; Mar 3, 2016 @ 5:38pm

Black Blade Mar 8, 2016 @ 3:14pm

Well i will point that using the Vive you can get phone calls on the device, maybe someone will make something like that also for the Rift..

On any case i think its possible if you can have some software to take the 7.1 game output and translate it to the speakers positions, but that will mean the speakers have to be placed in the right places to work most likely

Cody48er Mar 8, 2016 @ 3:19pm

VR-developed surround sound could be great. If it was designed perfectly to build audio sources around knowing right where your speakers are (Map them out in the room setup process), in theory it should work the same as in any game when you move the mouse and the audio shifts sides of the room based on your view.

Just imagine...Hearing an engine rumbling or a bird chirping in VR and being able to walk right up to it, with the physical location of that noise matching your speakers. So when you put your face right up to it the audio *feels* directly in front of you.

A bit of a dream early on, but it would be cool in theory. As someone with a 5.1 setup (7.1 if I ever get around to upgrading my front satellites) who really isn't fond of headphones, I'll still likely be using headphones in the early days of using the Vive. Got a "reasonable" pair of SteelSeries Siberias with a ~3ft cord I plan to use.

Badacid.Velox Mar 8, 2016 @ 3:21pm

Originally posted by Black Blade (Card idleing):
Well i will point that using the Vive you can get phone calls on the device, maybe someone will make something like that also for the Rift..

On any case i think its possible if you can have some software to take the 7.1 game output and translate it to the speakers positions, but that will mean the speakers have to be placed in the right places to work most likely

I agree. Having had a good long think on it, the only way I can see fixed speakers working is if the game is VR aware and has a setting for "fixed speakers" so that if you turn 180 degrees from the standard position, it knows to play the left channel sound from the right channel speaker.

Black Blade Mar 8, 2016 @ 3:45pm

Originally posted by Badacid.Velox:
I agree. Having had a good long think on it, the only way I can see fixed speakers working is if the game is VR aware and has a setting for "fixed speakers" so that if you turn 180 degrees from the standard position, it knows to play the left channel sound from the right channel speaker.

Thiknig abut it again, its not going to work
As you are moving, so even if they are doing that, as long as you step to anywhere you not going to be in the same spot, that makes it alot more of a mess to be done (it can be done, but will be a real mess)

Maybe staying with headphones for now is the best way

Badacid.Velox Mar 8, 2016 @ 3:56pm

Originally posted by Black Blade (Card idleing):
Originally posted by Badacid.Velox:
I agree. Having had a good long think on it, the only way I can see fixed speakers working is if the game is VR aware and has a setting for "fixed speakers" so that if you turn 180 degrees from the standard position, it knows to play the left channel sound from the right channel speaker.
Thiknig abut it again, its not going to work
As you are moving, so even if they are doing that, as long as you step to anywhere you not going to be in the same spot, that makes it alot more of a mess to be done (it can be done, but will be a real mess)

Maybe staying with headphones for now is the best way :D:

Well spinning isn't too bad but if you mean adjusting the amplitude of the speakers depending on your room location then yes does start to get complicated! I agree that speakers are definately the way for now....

Cody48er Mar 8, 2016 @ 3:58pm

I just don't see how it would be THAT much much different than when you move an in-game avatar. Games already do calculations for directional audio and distance to noise-producing things in games.

Just instead of using WASD to move and a mouse to look, you physically move in your room.

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shponglefan Mar 8, 2016 @ 4:00pm

In addition to the issue of rotating, there is also the issuing of moving closer or away from speakers. A proper surround setup will have all speakers calibrated for distance and volume. But a person dynamically moving around the space will throw all of that off.

The only way to do it would be to have a ring of identical speakers with dynamic processing for direction and distance. Such a system currently doesn't exist.

What I could see adding to a headphone based setup would be an external subwoofer. A powerful enough sub adds a physical dimension to bass frequencies. A subwoofer + headphones would probably be ideal for VR.

Last edited by shponglefan; Mar 8, 2016 @ 4:02pm

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shponglefan Mar 8, 2016 @ 4:05pm

Originally posted by Cody⢷⣿:
I just don't see how it would be THAT much much different than when you move an in-game avatar. Games already do calculations for directional audio and distance to noise-producing things in games.

Just instead of using WASD to move and a mouse to look, you physically move in your room.

Even if such a system were designed, there are a still a lot of acoustic anomalies within the room itself which would change the dynamics of the sound beyond what the system could process. You'd need a properly treated acoustic environment for maximum effect. But by that point, it just seems easier to use headphones.

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Badacid.Velox Mar 8, 2016 @ 4:05pm

Originally posted by shponglefan:
In addition to the issue of rotating, there is also the issuing of moving closer or away from speakers. A proper surround setup will have all speakers calibrated for distance and volume. But a person dynamically moving around the space will throw all of that off.

The only way to do it would be to have a ring of identical speakers with dynamic processing for direction and distance. Such a system currently doesn't exist.

What I could see adding to a headphone based setup would be an external subwoofer. A powerful enough sub adds a physical dimension to bass frequencies. A subwoofer + headphones would probably be ideal for VR.

Or alternately a butt kicker which is what i'd like to get but again it starts to get complicated on how to split the sound out (unless you're prepared to run another cable down your back!) Same thing for a woofer. I have heard of a piece of software you can get in conjunction with a PCIE sound card that will splt the sound out for this kind of thing.

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