Nerf berserker regenerate, it should be nerfed!

[Waiwai]

This has been discussed a long periode, I think.

Nerf berserker passive regeneration!

Berserker always has an advantage in a Siege or in a Vendetta, because they can regenerate faster than any orc.

Recently, I played Online Siege with some disposable epic orcs from market (200+ left in garrison), and something hanged me during Siege. (Why disposable? Because the gamebreaking spider bug makes spiders can instant-kill orc captain in some situations!)

Some berserkers loves to enrage, and some of them also have thick-skinned, either way these type of berserkers are, we can say they are nearly invincible. A single of these berserkers can face over 6 orc captains alone and defeat them all, if other orc captains can't deal damage over the berserker's regenerate rate.

If you try to deal such berserkers on your own, you will find out that you can deal damage on them, but after a second, they will regenerate completely. DoT can nullify their regenerate for a moment, but it wouldn't hold long, as soon as DoT goes off, these berserkers can regenerate completely in a very very short time.

Tailons' gears play an important role at this point.

If a berserker is not immuned to fire or poison, Dark or Warmonger lengedary gear sets will become handy, because these two sets can apply poison and fire DoT on orcs very easily.

If a berserker is immuned to both of them, only Outlaw lengedary gear sets might still have a chance to deal heavy damage on those berserkers.

Feral, Marauder, Vendetta and Slaughter legendrary gears are useless against Berserkers.

Machine... If you don't blow up yourself, it might work. I will blow up yourself without doubt, therefore I had never try it.

Bright Lord... If ice can stop berserkers go enraged, you will have a chance, but remember they will adapt it.

Mystic, Terror and Ringwraith, if you can use curse to cause them fleed, it is fine, if not, no chance basically.

If you don't legendary gears, you can use epic gears as replacement.

Ultimately, berserkers can adapt to our attack, eventually make people has no or nearly no alternativ to defeat them in any way. Therefore the regeneration should be nerfed. Currently, Good Berserker = I win. This is crazy.

[titanopteryx]

I haven't tried this, but would the spider offense upgrade possible instantly kill the defenders?

[Ambugaton]

I would politely disagree.

Berserkers and regeneration are one of the things that make sieges worth doing and something other than just an easy way to get spoils of war points, and there are counters to them. Outlaw gear is one, and there is plenty of epic gear that has great damage boosts for followers, plus the red gem for the rune, make sure you have element masters to add to the damage your followers are doing, shadow pull them to solo them if they aren't immune to arrows, a good portion of them are dazed as soon as rage wears off, etc.

And most berserkers are slow to adapt from what I've seen. That's why yanking them to solo them usually works. When it comes to overlords or soloing, I'd much rather deal with a berserker or tank than assassin or trickster with any decent resistances.

[Ambugaton]

Originally posted by titanopteryx:

I haven't tried this, but would the spider offense upgrade possible instantly kill the defenders?

Spider summoner+poison master on the assault team doesn't instant kill, but it does quickly take out captains supseptible to posion.

[Waiwai]

Originally posted by Ambugaton:

I would politely disagree. Berserkers and regeneration are one of the things that make sieges worth doing and something other than just an easy way to get spoils of war points, and there are counters to them. Outlaw gear is one, and there is plenty of epic gear that has great damage boosts for followers, plus the red gem for the rune, make sure you have element masters to add to the damage your followers are doing, shadow pull them to solo them if they aren't immune to arrows, a good portion of them are dazed as soon as rage wears off, etc.

No problem.

Probably you are right in some way, but I feel there is something wrong on those Berserkers.

Orc fighting orc rarely takes more than two minutes in Online Siege, exceptions are mainly due to Berserker and Tank.

A good Tank can hold a couple extra minutes, but they don't regenerate faster than you can damage them, that means Tank will eventually go down when a Tank gets many attacks.

Berserker is not, Berserker can hold longer due to they can regenerate, hold nearly forever and adapt all attack methods during the process. If you have a full set of Outlaw gear, the bonus against enraged will become handy, but some Berserkers are able to regenerate faster than damage with bonus applies on them.

Usually, an Online Siege takes only under 7 mins, nearly never over 9 minutes unless there is very tough defence. When you meet a Berserker in a Siege and he is a warcheif/overlord, they can easily hangs you over a half hour, if they have very good traits (immune to nearly everything, for example).

Yes, you can still defeat a Berserker, if they don't immune to fire or poison. But if they do, the passive regeneration can cause your regular damage become meaningless. In some way, it also means most of gears in game are useless when you fight a Berserker.

It makes Berserker is so different compared with other orc types. There is something wrong, I feel.

[♰FTZ♰]

Do not do this

[Craig [K.A.O.S.]]

If these Berserkers are so powerful, why not just fill your fort (and assault team) with them also, to balance the game? I've found many in silver boxes. You will only know if they auto-regen by watching them in Online Pit fighting and their health bar continually rises. This is a mechanic of the game that every player can use.

Also, I've found Assassins with this hidden trait also.

[Waiwai]

Originally posted by 5009craig:

If these Berserkers are so powerful, why not just fill your fort (and assault team) with them also, to balance the game? I've found many in silver boxes. You will only know if they auto-regen by watching them in Online Pit fighting and their health bar continually rises. This is a mechanic of the game that every player can use.

Also, I've found Assassins with this hidden trait also.

If you place too many Berserkers in your fort, these Berserkers might attack their allies when they enraged, and eventually make their allies to broken states and possible to be dominated. Therefore it is not always good to place too many Berserkers in your forts, because you are creating enemies for yourself.

But that is not point of this thread. I am simply speaking Berserker has very high ability to extend a fight to 10 times more time than other orc classes under some situations, in other words, you need to spend 10 times more time dealing with Berserker, possibly 20 or 30 minutes or more, this is abnormal, either for Siege or for Vendetta, or for encounting orc captain in game.

If a group of orc captains (3 or more, sometimes more than 10) cannot handle a Berserker, it is normally Tailon deals with that Berserker on his own, yet it doesn't make anything better but Tailon risks to die. It is abnormal.

In Vendetta, the best choice of facing Berserker with good traits is avoiding them, and find other Vendetta. Which makes that Vendetta different from other Vendetta.

The 7 mins of gold score of Siege should mean it is always possible to siege a fort under 7 minutes, regardless what orcs inside a fort, just the chance varies, should not vary between "possible" and "impossible". Berserker makes it "impossible" in general meaning, and it makes the gold score becomes meaningless for a Siege, because Berserker with good traits can guaranteed gold score not going to happen.

Assassian and Trickster extend a fight by avoiding your attack instead of guarding your attack, but they won't regenerate as fast as Berserker can, and they won't avoid your attack forever. If there is anything these Assassian and Trickster are not immuned to, it will become a breakpoint to harm them, and unlike Berserker, it is more easier to knock down Assassian and Trickster due to you have more chance to counter-attack them. To deal with Assassian and Trickster, you should stun them first or wait them to attack you and counter-attack, instead of being initiative to attack them. Therefore it is not a problem, because they won't make a fight longer than 3 - 4 minutes.

[Ambugaton]

Originally posted by Waiwai:

Originally posted by 5009craig:

If these Berserkers are so powerful, why not just fill your fort (and assault team) with them also, to balance the game? I've found many in silver boxes. You will only know if they auto-regen by watching them in Online Pit fighting and their health bar continually rises. This is a mechanic of the game that every player can use.

Also, I've found Assassins with this hidden trait also.

If you place too many Berserkers in your fort, these Berserkers might attack their allies when they enraged, and eventually make their allies to broken states and possible to be dominated. Therefore it is not always good to place too many Berserkers in your forts, because you are creating enemies for yourself.

But that is not point of this thread. I am simply speaking Berserker has very high ability to extend a fight to 10 times more time than other orc classes under some situations, in other words, you need to spend 10 times more time dealing with Berserker, possibly 20 or 30 minutes or more, this is abnormal, either for Siege or for Vendetta, or for encounting orc captain in game.

If a group of orc captains (3 or more, sometimes more than 10) cannot handle a Berserker, it is normally Tailon deals with that Berserker on his own, yet it doesn't make anything better but Tailon risks to die. It is abnormal.

In Vendetta, the best choice of facing Berserker with good traits is avoiding them, and find other Vendetta. Which makes that Vendetta different from other Vendetta.

The 7 mins of gold score of Siege should mean it is always possible to siege a fort under 7 minutes, regardless what orcs inside a fort, just the chance varies, should not vary between "possible" and "impossible". Berserker makes it "impossible" in general meaning, and it makes the gold score becomes meaningless for a Siege, because Berserker with good traits can guaranteed gold score not going to happen.

Assassian and Trickster extend a fight by avoiding your attack instead of guarding your attack, but they won't regenerate as fast as Berserker can, and they won't avoid your attack forever. If there is anything these Assassian and Trickster are not immuned to, it will become a breakpoint to harm them, and unlike Berserker, it is more easier to knock down Assassian and Trickster due to you have more chance to counter-attack them. To deal with Assassian and Trickster, you should stun them first or wait them to attack you and counter-attack, instead of being initiative to attack them. Therefore it is not a problem, because they won't make a fight longer than 3 - 4 minutes.

Sorry but I just don't see it. Not every fort should be able to be taken down within gold time by every team. Unless they were hacked, I'm sure there is some team that could have dealt with the berserkers... you said yourself you were using your disposables.

Almost every berserker can be taken down without extending the fight too long (assuming not hacked of course, which is a different issue), it just means building your assault team to do it or changing it to deal with a specific fort. You can see who the warchiefs are before you invade.

In most cases the game's stupid AI when it comes to things like spiked walls on the inner fort is more of an issue with getting gold. I can break the gate with a graug and my idiot commanders are still getting pin cushioned waiting for the walls to fall.

[Waiwai]

Originally posted by Ambugaton:

Sorry but I just don't see it. Not every fort should be able to be taken down within gold time by every team. Unless they were hacked, I'm sure there is some team that could have dealt with the berserkers... you said yourself you were using your disposables.

Almost every berserker can be taken down without extending the fight too long (assuming not hacked of course, which is a different issue), it just means building your assault team to do it or changing it to deal with a specific fort. You can see who the warchiefs are before you invade.

In most cases the game's stupid AI when it comes to things like spiked walls on the inner fort is more of an issue with getting gold. I can break the gate with a graug and my idiot commanders are still getting pin cushioned waiting for the walls to fall.

I am not speaking just Siege, but also Vendetta and regular encounting.

I use disposables because there is a bug currently, which can instant-kill orc captain even they are immuned to poison and beast. I lost three legendary orcs with no weakness at the second day of the Blade of Garadriel release already.

You said "almost every berserker can be taken down without extending the fight too long", well, that means there is some exceptions.

Have you actually fight a Berserker immune to all DoT, execution, stealth with Thick-skinned and enrage easily, and no weakness and will not become dazed?

I had tried it already, using Berserker with similar traits and give him some help hands, and the fight just went endless including I used ranged attack to stun that Berserker, because Berserker regenerates. I have to let my orc captains fight with him continues until he decides to retreat.

Trying to handle him by myself, regardless how many I knock him down, hit streak is over 100, still he can regenerate immediately to full, Outlaw gear bonus can't overwhelm his regeneration either.

If it is a Siege, it is fine, you still have options to let your orc captains deal with such Berserkers, but for overlord fight and Vendetta, that is another story.

The Berserker regenerated rate should be reviewed, it causes no difficulty, but it makes a game cannot continue as usual.

[Ambugaton]

Originally posted by Waiwai:

Originally posted by Ambugaton:

Sorry but I just don't see it. Not every fort should be able to be taken down within gold time by every team. Unless they were hacked, I'm sure there is some team that could have dealt with the berserkers... you said yourself you were using your disposables.

Almost every berserker can be taken down without extending the fight too long (assuming not hacked of course, which is a different issue), it just means building your assault team to do it or changing it to deal with a specific fort. You can see who the warchiefs are before you invade.

In most cases the game's stupid AI when it comes to things like spiked walls on the inner fort is more of an issue with getting gold. I can break the gate with a graug and my idiot commanders are still getting pin cushioned waiting for the walls to fall.

I am not speaking just Siege, but also Vendetta and regular encounting.

I use disposables because there is a bug currently, which can instant-kill orc captain even they are immuned to poison and beast. I lost three legendary orcs with no weakness at the second day of the Blade of Garadriel release already.

You said "almost every berserker can be taken down without extending the fight too long", well, that means there is some exceptions.

Have you actually fight a Berserker immune to all DoT, execution, stealth with Thick-skinned and enrage easily, and no weakness and will not become dazed?

I had tried it already, using Berserker with similar traits and give him some help hands, and the fight just went endless including I used ranged attack to stun that Berserker, because Berserker regenerates. I have to let my orc captains fight with him continues until he decides to retreat.

Trying to handle him by myself, regardless how many I knock him down, hit streak is over 100, still he can regenerate immediately to full, Outlaw gear bonus can't overwhelm his regeneration either.

If it is a Siege, it is fine, you still have options to let your orc captains deal with such Berserkers, but for overlord fight and Vendetta, that is another story.

The Berserker regenerated rate should be reviewed, it causes no difficulty, but it makes a game cannot continue as usual.

Agreed re: the insta-kill thing. I lost two legendaries within seconds after the spider summoning was introduced. I've been playing around with it, and it hasn't happened since I started making sure that I have a poison warder on my assault teams, but that could just be luck.

Maybe we've just had different experiences or different playstyles. You don't seem to have a problem with trickster types, butbersekers even with full immunities have never been long fights for me compared to say a trickster with full immunities or an assassin. The reason is that I have yet to find a berserker that adapts/learns quickly, whereas tricksters and assassins adapt almost immediately. There's always something that will break zerker attacks long enough to take them down a bit... vault, glaive, quick knives, hammer with AOE and knock-back like the warmonger hammer, summoning a graug to throw crap at him, etc.

My own overlord though who is a trickster with 6 immunities I can barely take down without my bodyguard, and the trickster doesn't even hit that hard. It's embarassing. If my warlords saw that fight they would all imediately revolt... I had to use everything in the environment to take him down when I dominated him, which just isn't available in the throne room.