Styx Or Rakash ? [Spoilers of Master of Shadows]

[Drewseph]

Hey guys, I'm probably gonna look dumb by asking this but who do you play in Shards of Darkness ? Do you playas the real Styx or the Rakash that you play in Master of Shadows ? In the last cutscene of Master of Shadows you see rakash falling and presumably dying so I would assume you'd play Styx but I've seen people say otherwise so I'm not sure.

BTW maybe that gets cleared up later in Shards of Darkness but I'm still towards the beginning of the game

[Meph]

Probably the same rakash as in master of shadows.
As many rakash emerged from the pond of amber after the fall of the tree, I guess these were just the ones Styx and his master Rakash have spawned over the time.

Goblins seem to be only able to define themself for their capability and their knowledge/memories of the world, since they are basically all clones. Our Protagonist in both games is exceptional, because he can give himself a name. There is no Goblin having the memories or capabilities of the original styx. Our master Rakash also only got memory fragments from him during MoS.
In the end it seems to be irrelevant if he is really the Original or the master Rakash. For the time being, this SoD Styx is more the Master Rakash than Styx.
If the master Rakash was killed or not from the Fall doesn't matter, in the end he or a Goblin very similar to him in Capability and Knowledge reemerged.
The original Styx however.. There is no clue of him reemerging and he was something else than a goblin, not of pure amber, before, so I find it likely that he is dead for good.
I always had it on my mind that way.

[StickyPawz]

I think it's reasonable to assume the protagonist you play is Styx from the title of the game.

[Drewseph]

Originally posted by Meph:

Probably the same rakash as in master of shadows.
As many rakash emerged from the pond of amber after the fall of the tree, I guess these were just the ones Styx and his master Rakash have spawned over the time.

Goblins seem to be only able to define themself for their capability and their knowledge/memories of the world, since they are basically all clones. Our Protagonist in both games is exceptional, because he can give himself a name. There is no Goblin having the memories or capabilities of the original styx. Our master Rakash also only got memory fragments from him during MoS.
In the end it seems to be irrelevant if he is really the Original or the master Rakash. For the time being, this SoD Styx is more the Master Rakash than Styx.
If the master Rakash was killed or not from the Fall doesn't matter, in the end he or a Goblin very similar to him in Capability and Knowledge reemerged.
The original Styx however.. There is no clue of him reemerging and he was something else than a goblin, not of pure amber, before, so I find it likely that he is dead for good.
I always had it on my mind that way.

You don't see Styx falling though, so I thought it would be more reasonable to assume you play Styx.
But yeah the rest of what you said makes sense so I guess you're right but it still bugs me that there's no way to be certain of it

[Drewseph]

Originally posted by StickyPaws:

I think it's reasonable to assume the protagonist you play is Styx from the title of the game.

you'd assume you play styx in MoS too then except it's not the case

[StickyPawz]

I wasn't being clear. My mistake for skimming your post too quickly.

The protagonist in both games is the more advanced goblin clone that identifies himself as *Styx*.

I never thought for a moment his creator survived the fall.

[Drewseph]

Originally posted by StickyPaws:

I wasn't being clear. My mistake for skimming your post too quickly.

The protagonist in both games is the more advanced goblin clone that identifies himself as *Styx*.

I never thought for a moment his creator survived the fall.

the thing is that Styx didn't fall, it was Rakash or the "advanced goblin" that did so that's why i'm unsure of who's the protagonist

[Drewseph]

I've found my answer in the eyes actually. One of the specific ways they made Styx and Rakash look different in MoS was their eyes and you can clearly see that you are the original Styx and not the Rakash you play in MoS.

EDIT : Nevermind, I actually found a more conclusive answer, i noticed al lthe Rakash have these eyes so it means nothing, but when you kill the queen robbie you hear a voice and styx says "am I hearing voice agains" which points to him being the Rakash you play in MoS. Also he says having taken a bath in amber, wich refers to the end of MoS, so you're definitely playing the Master Rakash.

[Bassilth]

I am coming in a little late.
But yes, you play Rakash. If you pay attention to the ending cutscene of MoS, you will notice the goblins holding the bloody cowl of Styx and their mouths are also bloody. Which implies they ripped him apart. So there is only one survivor. Rakash. Or he was reborn or a simple clone made in the amber lake simply inherited his intelligence and memory.

[Drewseph]

Originally posted by Bassilth:

I am coming in a little late.
But yes, you play Rakash. If you pay attention to the ending cutscene of MoS, you will notice the goblins holding the bloody cowl of Styx and their mouths are also bloody. Which implies they ripped him apart. So there is only one survivor. Rakash. Or he was reborn or a simple clone made in the amber lake simply inherited his intelligence and memory.

Yeah I had already gotten my proofs but that's one more into the list

[Airk]

i would think that rakash became styx the moment styx died.

[Bassilth]

Hmm maybe... There is some evidence that they somehow may have melded in mind. Or that Rakash didnt become Styx but has mixed memories from both his own past and Styx's past.

One such evidence is that he still calls himself Styx. In the previous game, Rakash told his creator that he didnt need his past and he didnt want his name. So why would he still keep it if he was aware whose name it truly was?

Another evidence is Styx's hate towards Bariman. Think about it. Only the original Styx had a reason to hate him, since he not only tortured him but also ruined the bridge that led to the World Tree. Forcing him to look for a work-around and ruining most of his plans. Rakash only met him twice. Once when he was interrogated by Styx and the second time he saw him when he made that speech to the people. He has no reason to despise him so much that he would want his entire bloodline dead.

Perhaps even Rakash isnt sure which memory is his and which is not. Perhaps he is not aware of everything that happened before the collapse. Maybe he confuses some memories from his creator as his own. Maybe he doesnt even remember having been a clone in the first place, only that he was around before the collapse. This is why he remembers some things (fall into the amber lake, the world tree, etc), but confuses others with his own (the name Styx, hate towards Bariman). His memories simply arent complete and arent entirely his own.

Ooooh god this could be part of an awesome plot for a future Styx game.

Just think about it... He could remember the memory Styx showed him about getting the dagger from his father, thinking he found his true origin and past. Then, during the game he would realize that he doesnt have a true family. He doesnt even have a name, since Styx was the name of his creator.

[Sad_Brother]

No, no, no.
They are all Styx-es!
The first one was Styx and others are Styxes because they are clones!
"Rakash" seems has the meaning "Clone".

Let me put here some quotes from my memory:
"So I tell to myself: Rakash, you should ..." - First Styx to the playeable Styx.
"They repeat the same word, Styx. So it seems it is the name" - end cinematics.
"Amber would not let me die" - First Styx at the first try to kill him. But at the end Amber Lake was empty, so his head become separated.

As far as I can remember there was two "perfect clones" of first Styx and both died after talking to "Player Styx". One said "He did not allow us to live".

So as a result on second game we have:
Player Styx - the only sane goblin.
Coop Styx - the perdect clone, made by Player Styx.
Personal Clone - one per Player and Coop Styxes.
Dumb goblins - clones of Player Styx from the first game. They should have some way to reproduce but it was not shown yet.
First Styx and his clones (except Player Styx) seems dead already.

[Bassilth]

We arent talking about the name. We are talking about individuals here. We are aware all smart goblins call themselves Styx.
They cant be all Styx, though. Sure, their names are the same but they are not the same individual.

Styx - First ever goblin
Rakash - Styx's perfect clone (later calls himself Styx but is NOT Styx)

Also, the other two smarter clones Rakash talked to were not perfect clones, since they did not possess amber abilities. Their increased intelligence was unintentional by their creator.

As for Co-op Styx... He isnt really part of the lore, so we can ignore him. He is only there to allow co-op to exist.

[Sad_Brother]

About individuals of course. But Styx still the name. So you need something more do distinguish them.
I see no difference between "Rakash" and "clone".

What evidence have you about absence of amber abilities of other clones?
If intelligence is unintentional, they can have other unintentional abilities.
It seems Player Styx is the one only, able to create own clones.
But even Personal Clone able to use Amber Vision, Poisonous Cloud and even Invisibility!

As for Coop Styx... Have you evidence he isnt really part of the lore? "Of Orcs and Men" is hardly count.

[Bassilth]

This is why we use Rakash as the name of the perfect clone. To distinguish them. Because this is how Styx called him. We knew him as such.

And Rakash does not mean clone. It means 'vermin' in the orc language. Clones are clones. Rakash is Rakash. Styx calls every normal goblin rakash. Not because they are clones. But because they are vermin. And stupid.

The other clones lack amber abilities as they display in Master of Shadows. This makes them no perfect clones. They dont use amber vision and they dont use clones. Neither can they turn invisible on their own. In the end of the game, it is Styx that turns his clones invisible to fight Rakash. It is not an ability they can use on their own.

The personal clone is not able to use these powers on its own, either. It can only happen once Rakash takes over and uses the abilities himself. The clone cannot turn itself invisible. It cannot use amber vision, neither can it make even more clones. Some of these abilities are granted to Rakash once he levels up his own skills, proving that it is Rakash who triggers this and not the clone.

As for Co-op Styx... He is only there for the multiplayer, so people can play with their friends. Having double Styx would be confusing, so they invented the Co-op perfect clone to make it possible. Rakash never made a perfect clone in the core game. It is not in the story. Which means he is not part of the lore. Rakash, or Styx as he calls himself, is the only smart goblin in existence. This is what makes him special.