Way to add "deadzone" to Mouse style touchpad usage? Minimum thumb movement threshold?

[ImHelping]

So I finally got my steam controller, and popped on Portal 2 to check it out because I know it's fully supported.

Is there any way to make it so a minimum amount of movement on the right touchpad is needed to cause movement in game? Sensitivity does not seem to be the answer, because that's just akin to mouse or stick sensitivity.

A lot of my initial stumbles would probably be eased by movement requiring something a bit more deliberate, than the slight wiggling and rocking of my thumb resting on the touchpad (and taking your thumb OFF the touchpad entirely is just... counter productive to the needs of a controller).

So far, my largest issue in using the thing (aside from the stick and face buttons being so close) is that I am not an unflinching robot. So all of my incidental twitches and movement keep sending my view out of control when I need to push buttons. Be it pushing and doing at the same time, or pushing buttons and my thumb merely resting on the right pad causing me to twitch off target.

This opinion remains even after disabling the gyro. Though it did make things LESS awkward once I realized merely touching the pad enabled gyro mode by default in Portal 2.

I like the potential of a lot of these features (My primary worry was the interface issues/issues when switching between windows because I prefer windowed mode). So being able to clear this up to my preference would really raise my desire to use this as a straight up "I want to use a controller for this game" rather than "I think it would be interesting to try the Steam controller for this".

If I'm having this much issue keeping my aim steady while pushing buttons in Portal 2, I'd hate to think of how I'd fare trying to use it in Mouse mode in something even approaching an action game.

Some initial searches didn't turn up anything on this, so sorry if I missed an obvious answer.

Even in stick mode (I must be overlooking how to switch portal 2 to "right pad = joystick mode" to test that, in my newbishness), I would assume this is an issue for me because a real physical stick has more resistance for resting your thumb on it and pushing buttons without movement, compared to a touchpad.

[Briggs]

There is. I've done it, but my computer is off or I'd tell you exactly what to do.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by Krovoc:

There is. I've done it, but my computer is off or I'd tell you exactly what to do.

I hope that's true. I'm used to such answers being along the lines of "Oh it can TOTALLY do that... just, not with what you are trying to do it for. So it's not the Steam controller's fault it can't, it's YOUR Fault/The game's fault".

Hopefully you do not mean finding way to make it so you have to click the right pad to use movement, that would be overkill and not helpful in most cases (such as the given example, portal 2). I could see that more viable in slower paced 3rd person games where all it does is turn the camera.

I know the LEFT pad has an option to require you to click to use, but that's supposed to emulate a Directional pad/key presses. Not Stick/Mouse.

[Rin]

yeah it is so hard. Its using a mouses precision but my thumbs keep sliding across the bad ever so slightly and it wants to move. It is not a very good experiance.

[maxRunner]

Well, in mouse mode there is no deadzone setting. You really want it to follow where you move your thumb. So, that being said there are a few settings that might help. First thing I would try is reducing the Sensitivity and turning Acceleration to Low. You could also try increasing Smoothing under Advanced.

Under Advanced there is also something called Minimum Movement Threshold, but I don't think that is what you are looking for. It's more to counter presets in a game.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by maxRunner:

Well, in mouse mode there is no deadzone setting. You really want it to follow where you move your thumb. So, that being said there are a few settings that might help. First thing I would try is reducing the Sensitivity and turning Acceleration to Low. You could also try increasing Smoothing under Advanced.

Under Advanced there is also something called Minimum Movement Threshold, but I don't think that is what you are looking for. It's more to counter presets in a game.

Acceleration is off by default in Portal 2 anyways.

Where are the advanced options anyways, exactly? I couldn't find any advanced setting options-

*tries out Legacy settings... which sounded like forcing obselete controls... which causes the option to access advanded options to show in the first place*

I wish people would stop acting like people outright stating the JUST got the controller, and are having issues finding options, already know how many layers deep in the menu their suggestions are.

ANYWAYS.... That option doesn't help, alas.

It's a real shame too because when just walking and looking around, this feels SO much better than a right stick, and that trackball feature is good... But it kinda falls apart for me when trying to partake in actual gameplay.

I even tried setting the Minimum movement threshold to max, still didn't help. Because instead of starting to move your view once it reaches that point, it just jumps my view over instantly by the amount leading up to the threshold.

So now instead of my view unacceptably wiggling around when trying to use my triggers/grip, or move my thumb over to the face buttons... It's making a bunch of small snap to jump cuts around.

Even trackball feature is hit by this. The view stutters as the trackball meets the "movement threshold" as the virtual trackball spins even with my hand completely off the pad.

So, that sucks for me I guess. But also sucks that the minimum movement threshold seems to not do anything useful for it's stated purpose.

EDIT: seriously. the natural rocking of my thumb when holding the controller and using the triggers is still causing it to move undesired. but all this option did was change it to Jacobs Ladder jitter cam unwanted movements, instead of acting like I can't possible hold the mouse still while pushing M1.

I see there is a Trigger press mouse dampening option. But that's no good because the issue happens from the muscular lead up to pulling triggers of bumpers or grip pads (or moving your thumb over to the face buttons).

Besides, that setting only works for the proper triggers anyway, when they are already pressed. And would still be no good for trying to aim and shoot at the same time.

[maxRunner]

Your reply is kind of all over the place but I will try to respond.

I didn't tell you exactly where each option is because I don't really feel like typing long config paths out. I'm assuming you spent some time familierizing yourself with the controls. Oh, you found it, good job.

Yes I know accelleration is off by default, that's why I suggested trying to turn it on after lowering sensitivity. Regarding Minimum Movement Threshold, I specifically said "I don't think that is what you are looking for".

So basically you ignored my suggestions and then did what I told you not to do. Sorry, I don't really feel bad you are having problems.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by maxRunner:

Your reply is kind of all over the place but I will try to respond.

I didn't tell you exactly where each option is because I don't really feel like typing long config paths out. I'm assuming you spent some time familierizing yourself with the controls. Oh, you found it, good job.

Yes I know accelleration is off by default, that's why I suggested trying to turn it on after lowering sensitivity. Regarding Minimum Movement Threshold, I specifically said "I don't think that is what you are looking for".

So basically you ignored my suggestions and then did what I told you not to do. Sorry, I don't really feel bad you are having problems.

Acceleration would not stop the initial movement issues though. And as stated, the minimum threshold option doesn't actually work as expected (Imagine if you set your mouse to a minimum threshold, and then when you met it your mouse pointed teleported over to where it would have been had it been moving the whole time. That's what I get for using that setting).

The main issues is that merely touching the right pad for me is enough to cause unwanted wavering when I also need to push buttons or pull triggers. Same with Gyros. When I'm not having to push buttons at the same time, it blows a stick away in usefulness... But then I start trying to shoot portals or pick up cubes and aim at the same time and welp.

I was hoping for my own muscle memory and personal tastes it would be more natural feeling for such games.

On the bright side, there are already cases where I can get good usage out of it when I just feeling like playing certain games with a controller instead of KB+M, just because I can.

Faster Than Light (FTL), for example. Zero native controller support, big warning disclaimers from the BPM interface about this fact. Default KB+M controller settings work GREAT for that game with me, except when I want to click on tiny things like airlocks in a hurry (but, that's what the pause button is for).

Brigador on the other hand (Early access, it's Devs have outright stated they know they need to add controller support), Needs more constant precision aiming of gunfire that also accounts for elevation differences (Such as making sure your railgun doesn't shoot harmlessly underneath a hovercraft). So it's back to barely usable for me in that case.

It helps that I got this out of cautiously optimistic curiosity, rather than honestly expecting it to be the replacement for 360 pads or KB+M so many talk it up to be. But, it would have been nice if my reflexes got as much use out of this in things that require constant on point Mouse/Right stick tweaking on, as it does games less demanding of such things.

So I know there is still plenty of stuff the Steam Controller can do for me, despite it's shortcomings for my personal hopes. I'm not going to scream "Oh my god it's not optimal for *insert modern shooter here* therefore it's trash at everything" like some people do.

But I'm not going to take suggestions like "Have you tried using the tip of your thumb rather than it's natural resting position?" some other people have givem as sane advice to my getting better use out of it in more Right stick/mouse movement required actiony games.

I'm not actually surprised you don't give care I'm having problems because I'm not falling over backwards to heap praises on the controller 100% of the time for 100% of all games though, that seems to be standard here.

[4u7umn05]

Hmm I find that when I hold the controller so it's resting in my palms, that the tip of my thumb touching the pad is my thumbs natural position, but never mind that.

What he's saying about turning on acceleration and turning down sensitivity does make sense. Smaller motions would be dampened making them into fine control...

while larger movements would become exagerated, allwoing you toturn around quickly.

Also while you do that I beleive that there is a trigger damping option on each input set to mouse. Turning that on allows you to reduce the sensitivity of each mouse input by some amount set by slider. Using both of these should help minimize accidental movement while using the triggers.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by 4u7umn05:

Hmm I find that when I hold the controller so it's resting in my palms, that the tip of my thumb touching the pad is my thumbs natural position, but never mind that.

What he's saying about turning on acceleration and turning down sensitivity does make sense. Smaller motions would be dampened making them into fine control...

while larger movements would become exagerated, allwoing you toturn around quickly.

Also while you do that I beleive that there is a trigger damping option on each input set to mouse. Turning that on allows you to reduce the sensitivity of each mouse input by some amount set by slider. Using both of these should help minimize accidental movement while using the triggers.

Just for clarification, that example of "Imagine a mouse pointer teleporting" is quite literally what is happening to me when I try the minimum threshold option, in games with mouse pointers.

I was experimenting with trigger dampening, acceleration, and overall sensitivity again before I read that post. Close but not quite for my shaky hands. It IS better than before, but the nature of the issue itself remains.

Trigger dampening helped on trigger pulls, but anything in a game that requires holding a trigger while also wanting to move your mouse/stick around at the same time gets gimped. As well as the fact it only works for the dual stage triggers, not the bumpers and squeeze grips. Helpful, but not an overall elimination of my issues (it does nothing for looking down and to the left every time I want to use the face buttons in a hurry, for example).

Combining a mix of acceleration options and general sensitivity options also lessened my issues, but reducing it to an entirely unnoticeable state also leaves normal and large movements requiring overkill effort. Also reduced, but did not eliminate the above mentioned switching to face buttons issue.

Trigger dampening is useful for many things, but for my own testing with it, it hasn't worked against the mere motion of my hands going to push things in the first place veering off target by a bit. On the actually trigger pull it has been of some use... But it falls short for the overall assistance. No options for the squeeze paddles or bumpers for example (Pushing buttons or picking up crates usually results in a small jerk down and to the left).

If I deliberately think about lifting it straight up it doesn't happen... but if you have to think about using your controller more than the game, that's no good.

On a lighter note, Trackball. Love it more than I thought I would, hardly any issue there and is the kind of thing I was optimistic about this controller for. Trackball function has been super great and intuitive.

I know a lot of people have basically zero issues with this sort of thing. But for me, it's quite awkward. The advice of you and MaxRunner did have relevant information, but it is still frustrating for me because my hands are not the most steady in the world (especially if I have to think about it), so I'm sure my issues on this matter are exaggerated compared to most.

If that minimum threshold thing didn't work in such a strange manner, it would have really helped. But when I use it, I end up moving around unwanted just as much total, it just looks like a bunch of jump cuts instead of it wavering around.

In practice for me, the Minimum Threshold acts like it it's making it so the higher the bar is, the farther the virtual mouse moves per slightest movement. Even the trackball feature moves it in a teleporting stutter when I use it.

I really should try and get some sleep. But I have some optimistic hopes than messing with the trackball options on top of everything else should make this get closer to intuitive.

After all, if I have such little issue stopping the trackball where I want, then perhaps overkilling low sensitivity combined with a generous trackball is just what I need.

[4u7umn05]

Yep thats what the minimum threshold does... I would have hoped that it was minimum movement before it starts moving, instead of minimum movement before updating. damn

[Briggs]

Yep, minimum movement. Also smoothing.

[maxRunner]

Don't use Minimum Threshold Movement. That is for a completely different purpose, games that screwed with how mouse movement is detected and so don't work well with the controller. Portal 2 is not one of those games.

A mixture of accelleration, sensitivity and smoothing settings will help, but there will never be a 100% solution for twitchy play. It's a trackpad, so it has to follow your thumb. There's no substitute for just practicing. I and others find it to be at least equal in accuracy to a gamepad which should indicate that you can master it with practice.