I think directInput is not working, any game with a controller select fails to see steam controller

[Slash0mega]

ok, because of a controller select, (and i think xinput auto assigns controllers to a slot 1-4) i think this is a directinput problem

any game that offers a controller select fails to see steam controller. it sees my dumb airmouse just fine which has useless gamepad drivers for whatever reason, but never the steam controller,

i hope someone can help me. as this is really, REALLY, upsetting. many games i want to use this thing with is not working due to this error.

[cammelspit]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=670401242
Have fun, Good luck!

[Slash0mega]

reddit got it, kindof. https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamController/comments/5630zu/supporti_think_directinput_is_not_working_any/

turns out its flat out unsported. so ya, general troubleshooting will not help here, which kindof makes the point that the controllers software has problems stand all the higher.

[Da Doom Man]

Technically DirectInput does work, but only through Xinput's specifically closen backwards compatability. This means that if there's a DirectInput game that doesnt work exactly like how Micosoft setup the backwards compatability, it wont properly work.

Here's a link to show how Microsoft set the DirectInput bindings:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh405052(v=vs.85).aspx

Oh and just to be more specific, Rx and Ry corresspond to Joy 1 R axis and Joy 1 U axis in DirectInput.

[cammelspit]

Originally posted by Slash0mega:

reddit got it, kindof. https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamController/comments/5630zu/supporti_think_directinput_is_not_working_any/

turns out its flat out unsported. so ya, general troubleshooting will not help here, which kindof makes the point that the controllers software has problems stand all the higher.

Still, nothing from you? Dude, you don't want help you want to complain. When you can give some info about your problem, I'll try and help. Till then, go figure it out yourself.

Direct input also DOES work... Sheesh, why don't people listen? @Da Doom Man thanks for the link, I was looking for one like that myself, then I saw you had already posted it.

[Slash0mega]

well, right then i just gave up considering redit said it was unsoported. . if you want to help you can check out sonic robo blast 2, or any doom port i would assume. or the demo of starmade right on steam...

again, the problem is simply that the steam controller, which works fine with any game with xinput, is not working on games that use direct input, and is not showing up in the list of controllers even when launched through steam with the overlay running.

thank you in advanced if you decide to take a look. i apologise for any foulness i am giving off, as i said elsewhere this problem gets me worked up. this wonderfull input device not working for seemingly arbitary reasons with steam overlay... and no ammount of googling helping.

[cammelspit]

Alrighty then, I just downloaded that game. There is a reason the game doesn't work. The game does NOT use Xinput OR direct input, it uses neither API. This is the exact same reason the X-Wing games don't work. The game is attempting to talk directly to the joystick driver, the SC has no such driver because it is actually, as far as Windows is concerned, a KB with three separate mouse devices. It is SUPER easy to get it working, though, bind your DPAD or your analog sticks to the arrow keys and a to the enter key. Did you not want to say what game it was because you were embarrassed by even having an interest in this game?

No, seriously, though, the SC works with both Xinput and Dinput but since there is no driver for GamePad this kind of programming can't work. So you know, many other controllers would also not work either, not just the SC. Especially those that have any kind of mapping software. Since this game has no benefit to using an analog input, you just use a KB/M config and you are playing it within maybe 10-15 seconds. If it were a game that really needed analog input, like X-Wing series does, you can use a little something called Xoutput. What this does is it gives a virtual GamePad device for the game to hook into while also allowing the SC, or many other controllers like DS3/4 and whatnot, to use the API.

This is NOT the steam controllers fault per se and it renders the whole direct input argument moot since that game uses no API whatsoever. So you know, this is something that has happened to other devices over the years, especially when they do not use a HID compliant driver because that is what the game is expecting. This is why APIs even exist and the reason why absolutely no game ever does it that way. They would have to just hope that either the driver being used is HID or that it is close enough for their code to work. This has not been a problem really since Windows 3.1 era, before the advent of DirectX. Most if not all of those games won't be able to run on a modern machine anyways so it is usually not a problem aside from the one fringe case I know, X-Wing, and now this one freeware fan game. Seeing the quality of the 'game', I am not surprised they took the wrong route to use joysticks. APIs are there so the game doesn't have to support every kind of controller natively in their own code. If they choose not to use an API, especially one so common as Xinput or even Dinput, then they have just done the whole thing of making a game wrong.

I am also curious as to what you define as Valve "supporting" the controller. Last time I checked they are still fixing bugs, adding features and actively selling it to new customers and by my estimation, that is exactly what support means.

[cammelspit]

OH! I forgot, yeah all the doom ports I have used work fine with the SC. GZDOOM being my favorite!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URJozEyz6UQ

A few other ports use Dinput and I think GZDoom does too. Thing is, you have to map everything by hand so using Xinput where available is best so you have less fiddling to do.

[Slash0mega]

Originally posted by cammelspit:

It is SUPER easy to get it working, though, bind your DPAD or your analog sticks to the arrow keys and a to the enter key.

Emulating keyboard is NOT working -_- the reason i want to get steam controller working it to use real analog controls,

Originally posted by cammelspit:

Did you not want to say what game it was because you were embarrassed by even having an interest in this game?

er, not really. just mentioning a exact game did not occur to me. i thought i finaly isolated the problem in directinput.

its a pretty solid game other than that cringy opening cenamatic...

Originally posted by cammelspit:

If it were a game that really needed analog input, like X-Wing series does, you can use a little something called Xoutput. What this does is it gives a virtual GamePad device for the game to hook into while also allowing the SC, or many other controllers like DS3/4 and whatnot, to use the API.

aha! now we are getting somewhere, ill give this thing a shot!

Originally posted by cammelspit:

Most if not all of those games won't be able to run on a modern machine anyways so it is usually not a problem aside from the one fringe case I know, X-Wing, and now this one freeware fan game. Seeing the quality of the 'game', I am not surprised they took the wrong route to use joysticks

ok, first, did you try starmade? and if you are willing to drop cash another game with this problem is lenna's inception which uses java.

also, just cureus, did you play the game at all or just looked at the controls? if you did play it and not liked it tha'ts fine, there is no accounting for taste but to imply that it is garbage is a bit of a stretch i think.

and in regards to api, i beleve its due to using doom's codebase, its a old game that has been in development for a long time.

Originally posted by cammelspit:

I am also curious as to what you define as Valve "supporting" the controller. Last time I checked they are still fixing bugs, adding features and actively selling it to new customers and by my estimation, that is exactly what support means.

where did i say they where not? I dislike the route they took with it requiring a overlay and acting like a freaking keyboard. I never said they where not fixing bugs or adding features... did i give off that impression somehow?

[cammelspit]

Alright here buddy, there is a LOT to cover here. and I will try to cover this from top to bottom.

1. KB not working. This absolutely should NEVER stop working in any circumstance. This points to the fact that there is something completely unrelated happening that is blocking it for some reason. I tried it and took about 15 seconds or so to make a config for that sonic game that worked, and worked fine. Try to make sure you aren't using any other software with overlays or with control interfaces. Synergy is a prime culprit.
   
2. That's cool. I was more or less kinda poking fun at you, no insult intended. :D
   
3. Xoutput works but has some pretty major limitations, which is why I do not recommend it in ANY circumstance at all unless you are using a UWP game. UWP explicitly locking anything out except for legit XBOX controllers so any gamepad will require some sort of virtual xbox controller device to work, not just the SC. https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamController/comments/4b8zdp/xoutput_for_uwp_games/ You lose multiplayer, rumble AND in game configuration. You will need to close the game to change anything but it does work. Please, do not use this unless it is actually a UWP game.
   
4. Yes, I have tried Starmade and it is a complete MESS, I tried it for about an hour and then just kinda gave up... Java is not meant for making optimized good games. The reason the SC has issues there is because Java launches the game and not steam itself. Steam can hook into anything launched under it. With java, steam launches Java and then Java launches the game separate from steam. You will have to use a KB/M config, I did and it works fine. Especially since that game doesn't even have good gamepad support for regular controllers either. It was early access, and I assume it still is, so it could get better. Xoutput could work with this but there is little benefit there for a game like this so I would consider it more effort with too many downsides to be worth doing but that is just my humble opinion.
   
5. As far as Doom is concerned, it only uses direct to the hardware talking to joysticks to work. This is normal for games of this era. To run the original code on your PC you have to use emulation to even get it to work at all. This is why GZDoom or other source ports are preferred when available since they add more modern rendering engines and features. I can help with this more specifically if you need a hand but I have done this a lot in other threads so a simple quick peek with the search bar should be sufficient.
   
6. You mentioned "unsoported" multiple times. If you were not referring to the SC and instead to the game then sure I get that but then you might want to rephrase a bit going forward.

So sorry for the wall of text here but there was just too much to cover...

[cammelspit]

Another thing... I do kind of agree with the fact that true native Direct input support should be a thing. Dinput, unlike Xinput, allows you to have more than the five axes that an XBOX controller has and the SC has a minimum of 11 axes that could be leveraged.

As far as a real gamepad device in Windows, I too think this would be a good thing. The SC works under 99.5% or all cases but there are still those few fringe cases it doesn't. Valve needs to have their own gamepad device and a service so that steam itself can talk directly to it. This would be GOOD but not NEEDED almost all of the time. If you take a peek at my state of the SC post, you can see that I, above most others, are the MOST critical of Valve and the SC. This is because I LOVE this thing and I want to see it adopted more than anything else. The problem it that I still see some of these things as possibly getting in the way of it becoming the one PC controller to rule them all.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/353370/discussions/0/350543841947996985/

[Slash0mega]

ah, "unsoported" i ctrl-f for "unsupported" and nothing came up, I meant direct input was unsupported by the software, not steam not supporting the controller at all.

my keyboard bindings work just fine, but in my eyes mapping keyboard to a analog stick is a workaround for any game that is supposed to have controller support.

we are on the same page when it comes to lovign the controller, that is why i am so angry with not being abile to use it for some of my games. I want to make a awsome input set for controlling my spaceship with true throttles, or to try some more traditinal controls for a ramdom platformer.

the fact that it is controled by a giant like valve is also agrovating. with a small wrapper like the guys behind ds4w i feel i could sent them a tweat with a feature request with somthing, while here it feels like there is no one listining :(

anyhow, i am going to try to launch starmade directly with java and see if that dose anything, ill report back if it works

[Slash0mega]

welp, can't figure out how to launch it directly with java.... dang.

[cammelspit]

Originally posted by Slash0mega:

welp, can't figure out how to launch it directly with java.... dang.

Naw, directly through Java is the problem. They know about it and I have been told by the DEV that it is something they will fix because they are just doing it wrong right now.