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and then a *proper* Steam Controller v2 that follows the og steam controller and has the nice big trackpads (with all the under the hood improvements) placed in the ergonomically primary positions. Call it a "pro" version, make it out of premium materials, manufacture in limited quantities and charge a commensurate price for it if needed to account for it being more niche I dont care... just as long as there is a controller that is trackpad focused on the market.
When it comes to using the trackpads, mouse input is the gold standard. It's outstanding, much better than any other input. But that is also part of the problem. Right joystick move on the right trackpad simply isn't a viable option. I'd much rather use a physical joystick than trying to aim with joystick move on the trackpad. Mouse like joystick could be the answer if not for one critical flaw. The faster your thumb moves, the less the cursor moves. This is counterintuitive and makes aiming too unpredictable. Joystick camera, also more difficult to use than mouse input.
As far as playing with a configuration that utilizes mouse input, there are a few things that need to come together to work its best. The game has to support mixed input or you'd have to go with a keyboard and mouse configuration. If you go keyboard and mouse you lose the gamepad button prompts. Even if the game supports mixed input, it doesn't mean it will show gamepad button prompts all the time, you'll likely run into the problem of the prompts switching back and forth. That's why I lobbied so hard for Valve to include mixed input with gamepad button prompts as part of the verification process for Steam Deck.
And speaking of Steam Deck or any potential future controller release, I think there is one crucial problem that Valve has not adequately addressed.
These devices are going to live or die based on the controls. The better the configuration, the better the user experience interacting with the game. Games designed for controllers won't be much of a problem, but games designed for keyboard and mouse will suffer without solid configs.
With configurations being so vital to how these devices behave, it brings us to an obvious question. Why hasn't Valve reached out to people with lots of experience setting up configurations?
Let me put it this way...
It's cool to see the density of air change as light is split off the edge of a razor and see the direction air moves as it exhausts and know the exact temperature of each vrm and whatnot
But is that more important than showing people how to actually set up the contols for games or providing them with playable configs for keyboard and mouse based games from the start?
I think the answer is obvious, but for whatever reason, Valve has taken a different approach. And that's not a knock on anyone, the people that did previews all did a great job and are experts in their respective fields. Steve with thermals and benchmarking, Phawx with handhelds, and Linus with marketing tech/dropping stuff. Their presentations were thorough and they obviously put a lot of work into their content.
But again, why hasn't Valve reached out to people with a similar level of expertise when it comes to using Steam Input and setting up configurations? It's a real head scratcher to me.
Anyways, back to a Steam Controller 2.0. In order for it to be successful, I think they'll need to both address the configuration problem and highlight areas in which a trackpad can be better than a joystick. Hopefully the Steam Deck will bring greater exposure to the benefits of gaming with trackpads, we shall see.
Either way I would be a day 1 buyer of any controller that Valve releases that includes a trackpad.
I think it will be similar to the steam controller launch, such as the reviews will simply ignore the trackpads when it comes to gaming. They might say they work okayish for some point and click games and also web browsing. They probably will try some user configurations and probably have a verry mixed feelings. Since unless they try a configuration made by someone that "thinks" the way they do, they aren't gonna like it. Again check out user created templates and they are all over the place. Even myself and my configurations aren't what everyone likes. Also many users share a configuration as soon as they can and in my experience until you finished the game you aren't ready to do so. Many times my configurations has changed up till the end of the game before being in a finished state.
Personal customization that is the power of the steam controller and it's downfall. The big mass want something easy and familiar not needing to "learn" different controls for every game.
The biggest "interesting" thing for me and the launch of steam deck is actually the gyro. Almost every reviewer didn't try the gyro or simply skipped by it and some didn't even know it had one. Check out LTT review where he simply said something like oh gyro sucks so we didn't care to test it. Fastforward to the steam deck and LTT said something like oh it even has a gyro to help for more precise aiming. So maybe with the steam deck we will get more controllers that offers the same kickass gyro as the steam controller/steam deck and finally reviewers actually starting to give it a try and recommend it to others. I think when the steam controller launched most did think of the wii remote and how bad it was and just ignored anything gyro.
And a final note is that maybe this time more games incorporate steam controller api to be fully steam deck compatible and then we can get full trackpad support and buttons named correctly and not needing to mix input and get button prompts switching and more problems.
Sure, with time came "steam controller games", official configs, developer configs....whatever. But even today, everybody I know doesn't even know what gyro aim is. Even if you explain, they would not understand the advantage. To me (and I am not even that big of a controller player), mouse input trackpad + gyro is just as good as mouse. Problem is many games refused to accept double inputs etc etc, usual "steam controller problems" which partly ruined the experience (mouse like joystick was a lukewarm compromise).
I love playing around with the controls, but my brother doesn't care about that at all, he just wants the thing to work so he can play games. And I think that's where a lot of people are. Which is why we should have more outreach to the Steam Input community so we can make the configs for people and share how to do it.
Agree there should have been a simple step by step tutorial (even better if interactive) to introduce at least to the basic mechanics of customization of the controller. I don't think there was something like that, at least definitely not at launch. I mean gyro aim, trackpad, flickstick....these are all goldmines.
The fact that gyro aim didn't get implemented enough on something as mainstream as the playstation (since PS3) makes me think there just really is no market for it....
I dunno. As a portable gaming device it's great. Feature wise, it's great. I wouldn't want to use it as a controller though. Put those features in to something about the size and shape of the first Steam controller and it's getting there but there are still ways to improve it.
Yeah of course I was only referring to the technology, not the ergonomics.
Valve did actually win an appeal, but I havent found anything more recent from that.
From my understanding, it has to go back to court because the original judge ignored actual evidence of prior art that renders scuf/ironburgs patent void.
Valve doesn't need their patents to make an SC2, all they have to do is implement back buttons in a way that doesn't use a lever in the same way that the Ironburg patent does.
It wasn't the whole Steam Controller that was found to infringe on the patent, just a specific feature of the Steam Controller. Even if Valve loses the appeal, they can still make new controllers, with back buttons. If the Ironburg patent applied to all back buttons, then the Steam Deck wouldn't have the buttons it does.
I'm not really sure how you come to that conclusion because I am aware Valve lost a lawsuit over buttons on the back of a controller. That has nothing to do with discussing the Steam deck or a future improved Steam contoller until we specifically want to talk about buttons on the back of the device and the specific patents they might have to workaround or license.
Also this is completely true;
Ironburgs (Scufs) patents do NOT cover every single form or iteration of putting buttons on the back of a gamepad/controller. They specifically cover "paddles", which in their conflict with Collective Minds a LOT of the arguments made back and forth were mostly about defining what paddles even are (side note; Collective Minds "won"). What is a paddle by the patent legal definition? It fits these 3 criteria:
* On the back (which is defined as opposite the face where the thumb controls are and NOT in the grips; grips are defined as being a different part of the controller that while connected to the front and back are different)
* Substantially covers the length from the top to the bottom
* Flexes in order to achieve its goal
Even if Valve totally loses the appeal (which would be dumb; again there is evidence of prior art which means Scuf shouldnt have gotten the patent in the first place), they could always redesign the back buttons to avoid infringing. Safest would be:
* In the grips which are legally considered different than the back
* smaller, sized more like an oversized face button that doesnt extend a significant amount
* doesnt flex but acts as a button
And wouldnt you know? The Deck's back buttons are exactly that, and therefore are completely "patent safe".
They could do something similar for a Deck Controller and a hypothetical Steam Controller v2, or go even crazier and implement their finger tracking and force sensing tech "pads" from their Index Controllers (highly unlikely, but interesting to think about).
Back on topic of Deck Controller versus Steam Controller v2... I maintain that both should exist because even if SC v2 is more niche it serves a different role/function than the Deck Controller.
The Deck is supposed to be as pick up and play as possible - so much so they even removed the dual stage trigger click to preserve the experience for the people who only have experience with more traditional triggers. The touchpads, while still there, are not as big and are a less ideal shape compared to the steam controllers pads (this has ramifications that non dual touchpad primary users will never really understand because our goals with input are simply different). and it should be clear from the design that the Deck is WAY more stick focused than touchpad focused. This is totally fine and I'm not saying this is a bad thing at all; its an entire "switch adjacent mobile pc" that costs a minimum of 400 dollars; it needs mass appeal, which means it needs the traditional controls people are familiar with.
The Steam Controller was always a bit more of an enthusiast device, and it filled a very different role; "keyboard and mouse, only without the keyboard and mouse because couch gaming". There is some overlap with the Deck given its a pc too, but because the Steam Controller is focused on mouse control - something sticks inherently suck at - it ditches the stick in favor of a larger touchpad. The left touchpad existing in place of a dpad? Dpads are only 4 buttons. What about pc games that want 8? 12? 16? A touchpad with a touch/radial menu is way more versatile in that situation... and then you have us steam controller power user nerds who discovered that the left touchpad is actually sublime for character movement because it offers several minor advantages (precision of output, outer ring sprint, speed, comfort) that add up to an experience that yes is rough for the average gamer but to an enthusiast is rather nice. This playstyle dies on the Deck though, because the smaller square pads that arent in the ergonomic primary spot simply lose pretty much everything that made touchpad movement great... and thats why I honestly find it frustrating when people say "the deck has everything so thats more options!"... yeah no. Killing a playstyle is not "more options".
Both controllers should exist. To truly have more options, more products that are different from each other need to exist. Its shameful that the traditional controller design has been around mostly unchanged for more than 2 decades. It is absolutely okay if ONE controller out of a sea of dozens-if-not-hundreds of "more of the same" diverges a bit to do something different. There is a reason Prego spent a lot of money to research how to make the perfect pasta sauce, and came to the conclusion "there is no such thing as the perfect pasta sauce, only perfect pasta sauceS". plural. And then they made a wide variety of different sauces, and came back from near bankruptcy to being super successful.
Anywho, I had posted this a year or two ago in another thread about a possible Steam Controller 2...
https://patents.google.com/patent/US10406431B2/en
Put me in the stand for the defense of Valve in the case of Ironburg patents. Ironburg patents talk about operating them with "middle fingers". Well here's my middle finger to you, Mr Ironburg, I use my pinky to operate those back paddles!
Edit: By the way, this is the patent being disputed...
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8641525B2/en
Why the steam deck lacks dual stage triggers , i can only speculate:
a) standard analog triggers are cheaper
b) making useful profiles to use the "endclick" of the steam controller is quite tricky, i haven`t seen many profiles making use of the second stage.
c) avoiding to push the second stage requires some "trigger discipline" from the user , pun intended. Heck sometimes i even press it accidentally and i use the SC for some years.
Trackpads and gyro are imho best for aiming in FPS games but that has a learning curve.
Movement with leftstick is technically inferior to the trackpad which has many advantages that most SC users are aware of.
But the the standard twinstick user would prefer the recentering force of the left stick due to simplicity and familiarity.
At least you have the option with the steamdeck to use it the way you want which is better for new customers.
Some people might convert to trackpad + gyro aim but left trackpad movement is a hard sell,
The best way to convert and nudge people to experiment with the different imputsettings would require valve to fix their own games and implement proper steam api.
At least HL2 and portal 1- 2 should have official profiles instead of always relying on the community.
Come to think of it , valve should make some kind of short demo- game which shows what you can do with the different imputs:
Aim at the box with the right stick , not bad.
Achievement unlocked: sticky aim
Now we have turned off aim assist try again.
Achievement unlocked: What happened?
Let`s use the trackpad, much better right ?
Achievement unlocked: "TRACK the target"
Lets combine trackpad with the gyro/airmouse.
wasn`t that much better than the stick?
Achievement unlocked: gyro ftw
Now turn to the left with the trackpad as fast as you can and stop immidiately.
Achievement unlocked: why so slow?
Nice , now we activated the trackball , let the trackball turn for you and stop when needed.
That was much faster and snappier than the stick, wasn`t it ?...
Achievement unlocked: 180 the easy way