Add wireless native Dualshock 4 input

[el webo mío]

I know the default input for all controllers with Steam Controller configuration enabled is X-Input (Xbox controllers) as it's the most supported type of controllers in most games. But there are some games that have native Dualshock 4 support. Now, I know that you can just deactivate X-Input support on those specific games. The problem is, some of those games only support the Dualshock 4 when it is connected -like Paladins, and Pocket Rumble- which can be annoying when you wanna play in a couch. IDK how easy to implement it would be, but making Steam Controller configuration give a native Dualshock 4 input wirelessly would solve that problem.

[austinp_valve]

Dualshock 4 injection is significantly more complicated to deal with hooking than Xbox controller injection. It wouldn't be super hard to make a fake DS4 controller in DirectInput, but that's not what most games use. A ton of games (and Steam) use low level USB functions and direct file read/writes to file handles. We'd have to hook and inspect every single file read/write a game makes and that's a level of invasiveness that we're not really comfortable with trying to implement and ensure doesn't cause issues across thousands of game.

[el webo mío]

Oh I see. I didn't know it would be that hard to implement. Sorry.

[DanHolli]

Originally posted by CCC|PetitDwarf:

Oh I see. I didn't know it would be that hard to implement. Sorry.

nothing wrong with the idea, it would be great. maybe talk to the dev teams to natively support steam input, I feel like that would be the best option.

[DaMu]

I'm not sure about your situation when you say "play in a couch." Are you using a normal computer with Steam to launch Paladins, or are you using a Steam Link/Remote Play to play away from the computer? For the later, if you're using Steam to stream the game, you'd have to work through Steam Input.

I'm sure there's software that uses the DS4 natively and wirelessly, but it's not in Steam, fyi.

[el webo mío]

Ok so I found that this program called DS4Windows gives wireless DS4 input. I just tested it Pocket Rumble -one of the games I mentioned that support DS4 wired but not wirelessly- and it works! I'm commenting this here in case someone has the same question about wireless DS4 and finds this post. If Steam doesn't support it, DS4Windows can.

For doing so, just create a new profile on DS4Windows, change controller setting to "Dualshock 4" in the "other" tab, set touchpad as "use as controls" and make sure to unbind the touchpad buttons.

[LAN021]

Reviving this because I think Valve should consider adding DualShock 4 emulation, even if it's laborious, just because so many players (myself included) want it.

It would allow players to get DS4 prompts in games, which is only a cosmetic change, but is so frequently requested that it's worth having. Mods would then not be needed at all for that purpose if the game has support for DS4.

Many games have DS4 support, but only for actual DS4. Many third-party PlayStation 4 controllers use XInput in PC Mode, for reasons of compatibility, I'm assuming. It's also not possible to use the great Steam Input features since it only uses XInput and has to be disabled to get the original DS4 working in game. Some games even have tutorials for this, Final Fantasy VII Remake recently, for instance. If all games had an option to manually change the prompts to DS4, that would solve everything, but, alas, most games don't have that feature.

Another by-feature would be that the input might work in older games that only have DInput.

DS4Windows[docs.ds4windows.app] apparently emulates a DS4 in wired V1 mode. Maybe this could be added to Steam as well, perhaps with an option for wired V2. reWASD[www.rewasd.com] also has DS4 emulation, though it doesn't say which mode is used. Even InputMapper has DS4 emulation and that's developed by one person, I think. If a single person can figure it out, I'm sure a major company like Valve can, too.

Maybe add an "Emulation Settings" button to the "Controller" tab of the game's profile, which leads to a sub-menu with three options: XInput, DualShock 4 v1 and DualShock 4 v2. Perhaps also an option to convert Back/View to Share instead of Touchpad click (which should be default).

I suppose the benefits would be:

• DualShock 4 emulation works with all controllers, not just original Sony DS4.
  
• Possible to get DualShock 4 prompts in games that have it without using mods or disabling Steam Input.
  
• Possible to use Steam Input functions, which is one of the greatest features of Steam.
  
• Can use original DS4 wirelessly if the game doesn't support it. Steam then converts it to wired V1/V2.
  
• If a game has issues with V2 DS4, it will work with V1 emulation and vice versa (don't know if any games has issues with V1).
  
• DirectInput might work in older games that don't have XInput.

I'd say it's worth it.

[DaMu]

It ain't about "so many players want it." Check again at the statistics report about connected controllers across participating Steam accounts, or ask a Steamworks dev to update:
https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/4145017/view/3061855517864424914

A significant majority use some kind of Xbox controller. Never mind Valve, if I was a developer and I only had the knowledge and resources to write basic controls for keyboard and mouse, I'm going to do just that and contract someone to implement Xbox controls within a couple months.

While more effort into native controller support will be nice, it's not practical to do, especially when AAA games need to turn a significant profit, just cater to the 70% of controller users who have Xbox, out of the 10% who use a controller on PC at all.

Originally posted by LAN021:

It would allow players to get DS4 prompts in games, which is only a cosmetic change, but is so frequently requested that it's worth having. Mods would then not be needed at all for that purpose if the game has support for DS4.

This is wrong. Maybe for old games in which icons are derived from dependencies, but Steam API already has the capability to poll the controller type using Steam Input and change the prompts. Look at the Steam Partners documentation:
https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/api/ISteamInput#GetInputTypeForHandle

[LAN021]

Originally posted by DaMu:

It ain't about "so many players want it." Check again at the statistics report about connected controllers across participating Steam accounts, or ask a Steamworks dev to update:

21% of users is not worth an update that Valve could do relatively easily? You know how big Steam's userbase is, don't you? You should also keep in mind that many third-party PS4/PS3 controllers use XInput mode on PC and are thus seen as Xbox controllers, so the numbers may not be as reliable as they seem (since you base many of your negative opinions on them).

Originally posted by DaMu:

A significant majority use some kind of Xbox controller. Never mind Valve, if I was a developer and I only had the knowledge and resources to write basic controls for keyboard and mouse, I'm going to do just that and contract someone to implement Xbox controls within a couple months.

While more effort into native controller support will be nice, it's not practical to do, especially when AAA games need to turn a significant profit, just cater to the 70% of controller users who have Xbox, out of the 10% who use a controller on PC at all.

Can't say I understand what you mean here. Almost all games that can be played with gamepads have XInput support--or all of them, even--and a significant portion have DS4 support as well. Many AAA games have at least native DS4 support. Developers do not always choose the laziest and easiest path, as you claim you would have done in their situation, which is something they should be commended for (AAA developers also have to listen to negative player feedback). DS4 support isn't even that hard to add to a game, from my understanding, it's just that it has different modes.

You also use the general "the majority is what matters and all other concerns are insignificant" argument here, which is not wise at all. Applied to politics, it's what leads to some of the ugliest sides of society.

Originally posted by DaMu:

This is wrong. Maybe for old games in which icons are derived from dependencies, but Steam API already has the capability to poll the controller type using Steam Input and change the prompts. Look at the Steam Partners documentation:

I don't know how many games actually use that feature. If the setting to manually change prompts is not in the game, it's impossible if you don't use an actual DS4. I know you can get DS4 prompts in games that have DS4 support, but you often have to turn off Steam Input, which is one of the Steam Client's greatest features (the very greatest in my opinion). Sadly, not all developers read those documents or implement any of the suggestions from Steam. They even suggest adding the option to manually switch prompts in those documents, but it's still missing in most games. I have only tried a few games where what you mention actually work and then it's still only for when you have a DS4 or emulate one from some other app.

It is regrettable that you are so negative and look for ways--some quite ill-founded--to motivate not adding it, when it would be a feature most PC players would be grateful for. Just look at all the threads in games for adding an option to manually change button prompts to DS4 and all the threads where people have issues with getting the prompts they want. I'd say my positive points far outweigh your few negative.

[tintingaroo]

To echo and add to the point made regarding the stat report:
Unless the figures are adjusted somehow / Valve account for this, the Xbox count would include other controllers & devices that are using 3rd party software/hardware for Xinput emulation.

[DaMu]

Originally posted by LAN021:

You should also keep in mind that many third-party PS4/PS3 controllers use XInput mode on PC and are thus seen as Xbox controllers, so the numbers may not be as reliable as they seem (since you base many of your negative opinions on them).

The stats should be adjusted for that. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as "Third party controllers stop using XInput mode."
One, it's commonly mistaken to believe that XInput is required on PC, especially with how firm Microsoft's stance is on using its own controllers on Windows and Xbox. Players will choose XInput on PC for the easiest setup.
Two, there's too big of a gap of time before creators of third-party controllers actually tested their PS4/Switch output on a PC; it's lucky when older 8bitdo controllers with Switch firmware actually are read as fully functional Switch controllers. Fair counterpoint, devices with upgradeable firmware should be held accountable for lackluster functionality on PC.

Originally posted by LAN021:

Many AAA games have at least native DS4 support. Developers do not always choose the laziest and easiest path, as you claim you would have done in their situation, which is something they should be commended for (AAA developers also have to listen to negative player feedback). DS4 support isn't even that hard to add to a game, from my understanding, it's just that it has different modes.

You also use the general "the majority is what matters and all other concerns are insignificant" argument here, which is not wise at all. Applied to politics, it's what leads to some of the ugliest sides of society.

Name me one AAA game from each of these publishers that does not have only Xbox controller support, with all the native PS4 functionality that you claim a significant portion of AAA games have, and I will take back my claim:

• EA
  
• Activision Blizzard
  
• Epic Games (not Fortnite, Jibbsmart was a miracle; not Rocket League, they were bought out after SIAPI and then had it removed)
  
• Ubisoft
  
• Amazon
  
• Microsoft Studios

Profits first, legacy later. All of these above US publishers follow the majority mentality, not just me.

Originally posted by LAN021:

If the setting to manually change prompts is not in the game, it's impossible if you don't use an actual DS4. I know you can get DS4 prompts in games that have DS4 support, but you often have to turn off Steam Input, which is one of the Steam Client's greatest features (the very greatest in my opinion). Sadly, not all developers read those documents or implement any of the suggestions from Steam.
...
I have only tried a few games where what you mention actually work and then it's still only for when you have a DS4 or emulate one from some other app.

Clarify the circumstance because I don't understand, "impossible to change prompts if you don't use an actual DS4? Like a fake, or a third-party output to DS4? The former shouldn't be supported, the latter is backed by my first counterpoint about upgradeable firmware or software to virtual DS4.
If you have to turn off Steam Input to get native DS4 functionality and icons, then the game is not using the Steam API callback, and that would fall under your point that "the devs fail to read the Steamworks documentation." I also understand that, if the game has, say, a backdoor agreement to stay on the Epic Games store for an allotted time, then devs wouldn't touch Steam's features in their input code at all.

Originally posted by LAN021:

It is regrettable that you are so negative and look for ways--some quite ill-founded--to motivate not adding it, when it would be a feature most PC players would be grateful for. Just look at all the threads in games for adding an option to manually change button prompts to DS4 and all the threads where people have issues with getting the prompts they want. I'd say my positive points far outweigh your few negative.

Good for you.

[LAN021]

Originally posted by DaMu:

Name me one AAA game from each of these publishers that does not have only Xbox controller support, with all the native PS4 functionality that you claim a significant portion of AAA games have, and I will take back my claim:

• EA
  
• Activision Blizzard
  
• Epic Games (not Fortnite, Jibbsmart was a miracle; not Rocket League, they were bought out after SIAPI and then had it removed)
  
• Ubisoft
  
• Amazon
  
• Microsoft Studios

Profits first, legacy later. All of these above US publishers follow the majority mentality, not just me.

You could just check PCGamingWiki yourself, but ok. I tried looking for some 2014-2016 titles, too.
These all have native DS4 support:

• EA: Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order (2019), Fifa 22 (2021) (probably missing in older titles).
  
• Activision Blizzard: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019), Call of Duty: Modern Warfare Remastered (2016), Diablo II: Resurrected (2021) (Blizzard games are often KB/M only).
  
• Epic Games: Possibly Alan Wake Remastered (2021), they don't publish that many games.
  
• Ubisoft: Assassin's Creed: Valhalla (2020), Assassin's Creed Unity (2014), Far Cry 4 (2014).
  
• Amazon: They have too few games, couldn't find anything.
  
• Xbox Game Studios (previously Microsoft Studios): They may actually prohibit it since they're Microsoft's own game studios, but at least Psychonauts 2 (2021) has it (it's multi-platform, however, so it may not count).

I don't know if all count as AAA games, but I think they're all popular, at least. With DualShock 4 emulation, it would be possible to get DS4 prompts in those games without using mods or turning off Steam Input. Some may have in-game switching of icons, however.

Originally posted by DaMu:

Clarify the circumstance because I don't understand, "impossible to change prompts if you don't use an actual DS4? Like a fake, or a third-party output to DS4? The former shouldn't be supported, the latter is backed by my first counterpoint about upgradeable firmware or software to virtual DS4.

I meant exactly that, what is unclear to you? If you don't use an actual DS4 and turn off Steam Input, you can't get the DS4 prompts in many games since too few games use the Steam Input features you mentioned. I didn't mean fake controllers, of course. Some games also have issues with V2 DS4, apparently, which is another problem that would be solved with DS4 emulation in Steam (I added it to my list above). You also mentioned virtual DS4 for third-party controllers now, which is exactly what I'm proposing, but for all controllers and in Steam itself. Why skip full emulation just because you have another, more limited feature? You also can't rely on controller manufacturers adding that feature. For the Astro C40, for example, users had to find a way to change it to DS4 mode by making changes in the registry editor.

Originally posted by DaMu:

If you have to turn off Steam Input to get native DS4 functionality and icons, then the game is not using the Steam API callback, and that would fall under your point that "the devs fail to read the Steamworks documentation." I also understand that, if the game has, say, a backdoor agreement to stay on the Epic Games store for an allotted time, then devs wouldn't touch Steam's features in their input code at all.

Many games are released on Steam initially as well, that's not the reason at all, it's that the devs simply don't follow Steam's guidelines. With DS4 emulation, it doesn't matter if the game has issues with it, Steam just sends an emulated wired V1 DS4 to the game, regardless of all other factors and as long as the game supports it, it works fine and the user can use all Steam Input functions like they can with other controllers.

Originally posted by DaMu:

Good for you.

Why the facepalm when I have disproved your claims? Will you give me another facepalm in another two weeks, when you have finally come up with some new counterarguments against an incontrovertibly good feature?

[balmashev93]

https://github.com/Valkirie/HandheldCompanion has DS4 emulation. I play Genshin Impact with it on Windows, and gyro works perfectly. Valve, please, add this option to emulate Dualshock controllers for native gyro support in games which support gyro for DS4, we need it