Steam Controller

Steam Controller

Supernaut Jul 15, 2017 @ 9:13pm
Legacy Joystick Controls
I'm trying to figure out how to set up my joysticks in the Legacy / Mixed style (Ljoystick = Move Forward/Backward + Turn L/R, Rjoystick = Look Up/Dn + Strafe L/R). I'm able to use the Dpad setting, but movement is too twitchy. Does anyone have any advice on the best way to set it up?
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cammelspit Jul 16, 2017 @ 8:29am 
I have a whole novel worth of advice but you really need to be a bit more specific here so I can get an idea of what you want to do. First, what game are you trying to play? Thing is, there are three different modes that the right pad can work under when acting like a right stick and they all have their benefits depending on what kind of game you are trying to play.

That specific setup you want, mixing axes from the left and right sticks cannot be done because we don't have arbitrary axes mapping on the SC. If the game allows you to do any axis mapping, and nearly all of them do, then you will have to just rebind those controls in the game itself.
Supernaut Jul 16, 2017 @ 11:30am 
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that I want to use this config for FPS and 3rd person shooters. I've got a Steam Controller, but I'm using my 360 controller for Shooters (now that we can use the SC app w/ other gamepads).

L Joystick:
Up = Move Forward
Dn = Move Backward
Left = Turn/Look Left
Right = Turn/Look Right

R Joystick:
Up = Look Up
Dn = Look Down
Left = Strafe Left
Right = Strafe Right

You said:
"That specific setup you want, mixing axes from the left and right sticks cannot be done because we don't have arbitrary axes mapping on the SC.",

but I think you might be misunderstanding me, because I'm actually using that setup now on the 360 controller (and I've used it on the SC). So I know it can be done. The problem is when I turn L/R or look up/dn, it's really choppy. I can't figure out how to smooth it out. For example, when you turn in a FPS, if you lightly press left or right, the camera will pan slowly, but if you press harder, then the camera pans faster. With the setup that I'm using now, it pivots too fast to line up a shot w/ any accuracy.

Here's some screenshots:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1070812432
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1070811534
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1070810516

These are the advanced optiions:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1070808903

Which "Style of Input" should I select?
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1070809688
The "Joystick Move" option can't be mixed (that might be what you meant when you said that mixing axes can't be done).

Most games don't offer any "mixed" configs, or options to modify the axes anymore. Default L Stick = Move, R Stick = Look is the only option in most games. The "mixed" setup is mainly used by lefties, so developers usually just forget about our small minority.:steamsad:
cammelspit Jul 16, 2017 @ 12:31pm 
Ah, so you want it to play like Goldeneye. :P

Alright, at the point you mentioned an XBOX controller, this is usually where I say good luck and walk away but I think since you both have an SC and it is equally relevant here I will answer all your questions.

What you are doing is NOT binding axes to the sticks, what you are doing is binding stick directions as digital inputs. Axes cannot be mapped in the Steam configurator at all. This is a huge deal for me too, not because I am a lefty or actually want my games to play like that but because there are a bunch of older games, Blood Rayne being chief among them. that allow mapping of buttons but not axes. SO L/R look up and down, right stick up and down look left and right, you get the picture.

See, binding the way you are is so you can use a digital button to map an analog stick direction. Imagine a game where the right stick is dodge and with this, you could map left and right dodge to the grips, as an example. This is not actually mapping the analog output of that axis, it is simply mapping a full 100% press. So pressing that button is like flicking the stick in that direction. Since the software allows you to bind any analog control surface of your controller to be digital button presses, you can then bind that analog direction to that 'digital button' press. As I already pointed out, this is not the axis itself but is a digital press of that direction, full on 100% and nothing more for the duration of that press. Again, if you can't remap axes in the game itself, which you are right about it, Xinput is usually assumed to be the same exact XBOX controller, and a lot of games do block out those config options for it and sometimes won't even have them. Still, in the grand scheme of the last 30 years of PC games, the vast lions share of games do allow you to remap controls simply because there has never been a reliable standard for gamepads and the way their hardware is set up.

Thre are sometimes other options though. Some games will allow you to map controls via INI tweaking even if the game itself has no way to do it by a menu but that is all game specifics a lot of research will be required by you to figure out if that game does or does not have this ability.

Unfortunately, the bottom line is still no, you cannot do what you want to do in the way you want to do it with the SC or any other 'standard' gamepad using the steam configurator with only one exception!

Two words... GENERIC GAMEPAD!

Ok, to qualify this, I was actually using an N64 controller, which shows up in windows as a basic Dinput device, via the Steam configurator. Why? No reason I was just messing around with it because I like fiddling with silly stuff. This also worked with a generic PS1/2 controller, Dreamcast, GameCube and OGXBOX controller too. With a generic Dinput device, when you FIRST set it up Steam will give you the ability to manually and arbitrarily map anything to anything. The reason is those older devices didn't have a standard arrangement, as I mentioned earlier. This is meant so you can make it match what the physical buttons are on a Xinput controller so binding in the Steam configurator makes sense. This also has the side effect of allowing you to hard, permanently (Well, almost permanent, lol) bind any axis to any other axis. So you COULD just bind the left stick left and right to be the right sticks left and right manually. This all takes place long before game specific bindings with the normal Configurator happen. Unfortunately, any of the Steam NATIVE support for XBOX, DS4, and SC does not allow this because they are a known configuration. Now, I haven't tried it but you might be able to disable the DS4 support and because it is by its nature a Dinput device, might be able to do the same trick. For XBOX controllers, I simply don't know if it would work like that and you would more than likely lose rumble support or maybe other features even if it DID work.

As a right handed man, I don't have a horse in this race BUT...

Movement on the left IS a left handed arrangement. The choice was arbitrary just because arcade cabinets mostly had their joysticks on the left. Before the NES, most consoles had ambidextrous controls or had the stick operated by the right hand. Your preference is fine but there is no reason why this config would be better for lefties and things like stick swapping for south paws is just silly. If the stick were reversed then lefties would be complaining movement wasn't on the left. THIS HAVING BEEN SAID...

I know you want a Goldeneye setup but, I had this conversation with a person on this very forum before and they were saying it could not be done. As a challenge, I decided to make a south paw config for the SC. I used the right pad for movement and the left for aiming. I played like 20 hours of the Witcher this way and became, over that time, just as good as I was the other way round. Left handed people are also usually much better and working ambidextrously that right handed people are so there should be nothing holding anyone back from just getting used to it whichever way it is, to begin with. I add this only as food for thought here and mean no disrespect by it. Just, think about it. It may just be worth your time to simply get used to it and stop thinking about it. You will prolly get to a point where you forget it isn't your preferred way and you will find it much easier to jump in and just play.

Sorry for the wall here but I told you I had novels worth of advice and/or info about controls as a subject, even more so the SC. :D
Supernaut Jul 16, 2017 @ 2:09pm 
Yeah, I'm a relic. I started out playing FPS on the N64 (I loved that controller, and I miss GoldenEye). As far as getting used to default or switched axes, I suffer greatly.

The thing w/ us lefties is that we're split into two groups, those who are left-dominant, and those like me that are mixed hand / ambidextrous. If you're left-dominant, it's easier to just switch the L and R joysticks, but if you're more ambidextrous, it can mess with your head (literally). The brain tries to disconnect and rewire itself to adjust to the new parameters. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but it's not as easy as it may seem when you've been playing that way for over 20 years (old habits die hard).

I'm not a psychologist, so I can't explain it technically, but I remember back in elementary school, they made me and a few other lefties take these weird psychological and dexterity tests because we would switch hands when writing, or pitching and catching a ball. For us, it was just human laziness (one hand gets tired, switch to the other), but they said that we shouldn't do that because it can cause psychological problems. One hand must be dominant and the other complimentary. I don't want to drown you in links or references, and I'm sure I'm probably boring you about now, so let's just say it makes my brain hurt to try and switch now.

Thanks for explaining the analog output, I see what you're saying about the 100% pressed trigger. I was hoping there was a way to adjust that to get a smooth arc, but apparently there isn't. I've been using Pinnacle Game Profiler to mod my controls, but it doesn't allow you to change the configs in-game. I wanted to use the SC app because it has a better UI and is more convenient. Pinnacle allows you to switch the DINPUT and XINPUT, so I thought the SC app would too (it seems pretty advanced, afterall).

cammelspit Jul 16, 2017 @ 3:40pm 
Hehe, no need to worry my friend. I was just pointing out the arbitrary nature of the movement on the left. Fun fact, Japan has more left handed people per capita than any other ethnic group in the world. Combine that with the fact that the guy who made the decision to make it on the left was, himself a left handed person would make me argue that movement on the left is already a south paw arrangement and swapping stick should be perfect for right handed persons. Either way, you use what you know. Also part of the reason I added the story about me putting 20 hours in with the sides switched. As a right handed person, that is supposed to be much MUCH harder for us, we don't have ambidextrous persons much like south paws do. It wasn't hard at all and I got the hang of it after about an hour or so. :)

As far as splitting it up to be like Goldeneye? Well, I hate to say it but we have been asking for axis remapping since OCT2015 and still haven't gotten it. I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening anytime soon. Your basic options are to either just live with it and learn to love it or try to play only games you can remap axes. Maybe try and do some testing with turning off 360 controller support and mapping it yourself, if it even lets you. Otherwise, some games can still be made to map but I am unaware of any kind of system wide thing or another way to do this. Maybe a modified Xinput.dll can be added to the game directory to hard wire those changes? I would have no idea how to actually do something like that, though.

Good luck on it, if you ever figure something out I would be interested in the method used.
Supernaut Jul 16, 2017 @ 10:15pm 
I didn't know Japan had the most lefties. I knew it wasn't the Middle East. There the left hand is only used for, well, let's just say you don't want to shake anyone's left hand there.

You can use Pinnacle Game Profiler. It adds a "hook".dll so that you can modify the axes of any game, and it works w/ any controller. It's not as user-friendly as the Steam UI, but I doubt you'll have many problems with it. It's quite advanced, has a ton of options (Profile Hot-swap, etc.). It's what I've been using for years. I just decided to try the SC app because you can change controls in-game, but w/ Pinnacle you have to quit the game to make changes to config settings (which can be a hassle w/ games that have long, unskippable intros). It's usually on sale for $5.
cammelspit Jul 17, 2017 @ 12:39am 
Originally posted by Supernaut:
I didn't know Japan had the most lefties. I knew it wasn't the Middle East. There the left hand is only used for, well, let's just say you don't want to shake anyone's left hand there.

You can use Pinnacle Game Profiler. It adds a "hook".dll so that you can modify the axes of any game, and it works w/ any controller. It's not as user-friendly as the Steam UI, but I doubt you'll have many problems with it. It's quite advanced, has a ton of options (Profile Hot-swap, etc.). It's what I've been using for years. I just decided to try the SC app because you can change controls in-game, but w/ Pinnacle you have to quit the game to make changes to config settings (which can be a hassle w/ games that have long, unskippable intros). It's usually on sale for $5.
The only reason I would say it is not worth it is the fact that I have no idea if it would work with the SC, which is a hard requirement (By that I mean 100% absolute must), and the fact that it is just that one feature that steam should have put in there ages ago. Let's just hope they end up putting it in there for all our sakes. For BloodRayne, there is a community mod that gives it correct Xinput and it did work. Unfortunately, at some point, a Steam client update broke it and I haven't tried it in quite some time so maybe it works. GTA3 has a similar community mod/patch for correct Xinput. It mimics the XBOX version of the game in every way and that one works quite perfectly with the SC. Thankfully, you can also just use the mouse on the right (or left :D) pad and you have smooth and glorious TPS action. In fact, they have a similar patch for all of the GTA games prior to 4 that work in an identical way. Then San Andreas was patched and made worse by Rockstar but we are not getting into that right now. :(

As I mentioned, generally speaking, there is almost always a way to do it but you have to know precisely what you want and how that game works to make it happen sometimes. Then again, Valve could just add infinite axis Dinput and axis mappings and that would solve, oh, I dunno, EVERYTHING. I would also appreciate a way to make the haptics rumble on bass notes coming from the sound card but I don't think that is something they would actually do, or care to do, pretty much ever.

As you might imagine, I am one of the Steam Controller biggest proponents but that also comes with being it's most direct and harsh critics. IMO, it is very nearly perfect. Oh so very very close. Just a handful more tweaks and it could really bump up from the worlds best controller ever made to something akin to nirvana in your hands. Then again, that's just me. LOL
BillLoomis Jan 27, 2018 @ 12:58pm 
Reading through this. I synced the switch pro controller and i need the following thumbstick layout. The funny thing is before i synced the controller, i went to controller settings and it offers legacy inverted. But how i can get it to apply to the switch pro controller is beyond me:

L Joystick:
Up = Move Forward
Dn = Move Backward
Left = Turn/Look Left
Right = Turn/Look Right

R Joystick:
Up = Look Down
Dn = Look Up
Left = Strafe Left
Right = Strafe Right
Boreout [Aut] Jan 27, 2018 @ 11:29pm 
Originally posted by Supernaut:
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that I want to use this config for FPS and 3rd person shooters. I've got a Steam Controller, but I'm using my 360 controller for Shooters (now that we can use the SC app w/ other gamepads).

L Joystick:
Up = Move Forward
Dn = Move Backward
Left = Turn/Look Left
Right = Turn/Look Right

R Joystick:
Up = Look Up
Dn = Look Down
Left = Strafe Left
Right = Strafe Right

You said:
"That specific setup you want, mixing axes from the left and right sticks cannot be done because we don't have arbitrary axes mapping on the SC.",

but I think you might be misunderstanding me, because I'm actually using that setup now on the 360 controller (and I've used it on the SC). So I know it can be done. The problem is when I turn L/R or look up/dn, it's really choppy. I can't figure out how to smooth it out. For example, when you turn in a FPS, if you lightly press left or right, the camera will pan slowly, but if you press harder, then the camera pans faster. With the setup that I'm using now, it pivots too fast to line up a shot w/ any accuracy.

Most games don't offer any "mixed" configs, or options to modify the axes anymore. Default L Stick = Move, R Stick = Look is the only option in most games. The "mixed" setup is mainly used by lefties, so developers usually just forget about our small minority.:steamsad:


Nice solution but the reason why it doesn't work is because the DPAD is digital only (0 or max).

The choppiness you are talking about is the analog emulation.

The SC api is trying to make analog values out of digital userinput.
LSUP,LSDN and so on are maximum values (100 percent deflection of the stick) so they are treated as digital values.
You can however try to change the values in the advanced settings (Analog emulation pulse time and analog emulation active %).

But it will either be choppy or less responsive.

I think this is meant for emulating fake analog inputs when you use WASD (digital keyboard inputs) in an FPS to get some kind of analogstyle movement.

Maybe with a future update valve will implement seperate analog axis mapping.
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Date Posted: Jul 15, 2017 @ 9:13pm
Posts: 9