Valve needs to release a model with Right Joystick instead of Track pad.

[Starblazor]

Short story, I love to play with both a mouse+keyboard and game controllers. During the past 20 years, I've played some multiplayer games at a high level with both and personally, I think there can be both extremely accurate. And yes, I'm saying that a thumbstick can be just as accurate as a mouse, but it's does take more hours of practice and those skills are easier to lose as well. A mouse is fairly easy to pick up, it's easy to get headshots after just a few rounds at CSS, UT or else.

Here is the thing, I welcome innovation and new technologies; when it makes the end product better. I purchased the Steam Controller and, to my great suprise, was very impressed and pleased by several features and all the customization.

Design wise, I think it's a great design. Those extra bumpers at the back of the controller are exactly what modern game controllers needed. And those 2 extra buttons on the back might not sound like much, but they actually change everything for FPS games. Without those 2 extra buttons, game devs can only do basic stuff; reloading, jumping, shoot, etc. There isn't enough room for dodging, walldodging or more attack types. Gameplay mechancis that require the players to keep their thumbs on both thumbsticks while using the triggers and bumpers.

If the Steam Controller would have been almost the same as the Xbox 360 Controller or X1 controller, but would have those 2 extra buttons on the back, the Steam Controller would be freaking amazing and a giant leap forward.

But here is the thing, the right thumbstick for aiming was already working perfectly. Why did we end up with a trackpad? Gyro is cool, but why add a trackpad!? It is freaking terrible. It just doesn't work at all whatsoever. I've been trying to get used to this game controller for weeks now and still cannot get used to it simply because the trackpad is just not good. It's not a good concept. It's especially not good in practice either. The gyro is great, that's a brilliant addition, but the Steam Controller works like crap right now, because the trackpad just isn't better than a thumbstick.

It's was a big big mistake. And I hope that Valve will, in a near future, finally release a version of the Steam controller with a right thumbstick instead of a trackpad, so that we can finally get the next big thing, the next best game controller.

[Rapologist33]

After spending hundreds of hours practicing and tweaking this is my opinion. Keap in mind im 29 and have been gaming on pc and consoles since I was 4.
First choice, SC with my settings. God luck going at me in an fps with anything really. Right pad is 180 in 1 flick with gyro fine aiming. I dont know how i lived without this.
Second, KB&M I dont need to explain this.
Last, thumbsticks! This being said I was a founder of Synthetic Reality KSI's clan on the 360 for cod mw and mw2 and won many GB tournys and ladders at the time so I know my way around a conroller in fps games.But to believe without Aim assist/auto aim they are agood as a kb/m is insane Let alone a fully decked out SC in the right hands........

[cammelspit]

Publicado originalmente por Chris:

Conceptually, what makes me uncomfortable with the Steam Controller is that it reminds me a lot of motion controls or even Golden Eye or Perfect Dark back then on N64. It can be precise when you are looking in a specific direction, but always have to reorient your original position as you go either with Gyro, Trackpad or the Border spin feature or trackball rotation.

Another rather overlooked thing is that the SC doesn't actually have a DPI in the traditional sense. it sends ticks to the game that are interpreted like the DPI would be from a mouse. A fabulous trick to get some ultra fine pixel/subpixel accuracy is to drop the game's mouse sensitivity as low as it can go, seriously, ALL the way down. You then up the SCs sensitivity slider all the way up and simply adjust it there till it meets your fancy. What this does is it actually puts out more tricks to the game which, in turn, moves less per tick. Same thing you have to do when using a mouse that has various DPI settings.

Pro tip for anyone who plays FPS games. I don't really use the gyro 100% of the time. When I am meaning to be serious, then you bet ya' I break out every tool in the shed. When I am playing a single player and more casual FPS experience I just don't use them. The trick with not using the gyro is you can actually plant your thumb in one spot on the pad and simp[ly roll your thumb slightly to zero in on those headshots. Not as fast as you can with gyro because you can use gyro AND the pad at the same time to line things up quicker but it is just one thing new users just don't seem to pick up on very quickly. Bottom line, the trackpad is just as accurate in the right hands maybe just not as fast as when you use the gyros in combination. Still faster than a stick can go, but I am not here to rag on analogs too much either.

I also LOVE the N64 analogy except for a different reason altogether. :P

I was 12 when I got my N64, in 1996 and I must say I HATED it. Mainly because I couldn't just use the DPAD like I could on my NES for so many years. Took weeks to even feel like I was using it right. After a month or so I ended up actually kinda liking it. It worked quite well for your mario64 and Extreme-g. Thing is, if you wanted to play N64 at all, you would have to use that controller and nothing else. The SC is kinda similar in the way that it is COMPLETELY different than anything you have ever used before only you aren't being forced to put the time in it in order to get good at it. If GTA6 comes out next week and is a Steam Controller exclusive, you can't play it with any other gamepad or even the KB/M, You bet your bottom dollar that literally every PC gamer would not only have an SC but would become exceptional at it VERY fast.

OFC, I know the N64 has hardware limitations seeing as it was a muti-positional digital stick like many Arcade games used, the Happ controls perfect 360 joysticks to be exact and I also assert that the SC does not have any such limitation and instead removes the vast majority of limitations that other control methods have.

I know, I know... Broken record here. Sorry, I am more of a hardware guy. I own about 10 arcade machines, depending on if you count a few that aren't restored yet, and did repairs on them for quite a few years. I have made console arcade controllers, hacked gamepads from consoles to work on an arcade, turbo fire mods, trigger stops, all that kinda ♥♥♥♥ so if anyone knows controls, it is likely to be me.

I just hate seeing the SC get so much of a bad rap. Even though you, OP, don't seem to be quite as negative about it as you were in the OP itself. I also hate seeing someone who owns the controller who just can't use it as smoothly as i can. Sure, I have had mine since OCT16th 2015 BUT it sure didn't take that long to be at least proficient with it, maybe 2 weeks total. After about a month of using it as my sole control device for any gaming it had become, literally, like a second hand. I just think anyone who isn't able to see the SC and use the SC in this way is doing themselves a disservice... That's all...

It's late and I may have overdone this post a bit. Bottom line, don't post at 1AM when your eyes feel like falling out. Makes for GIGANTIC walls of text like this...

EDIT: No idea why steam dropped all of my paragraphs and just dumped it into one big wall... I really did use the carriage return...

[Guy_From_Hell]

Stopped reading at this:

Publicado originalmente por Chris:

And yes, I'm saying that a thumbstick can be just as accurate as a mouse,

No, it can't be. If thumbstick is just as accurate as a mouse. It's not you're good with thumbstick, it's you're very bad with mouse

[Starblazor]

Publicado originalmente por Guy_From_Hell:

Stopped reading at this:
No, it can't be. If thumbstick is just as accurate as a mouse. It's not you're good with thumbstick, it's you're very bad with mouse

As I said before, I've played FPS games at a ''really high'' level Online on both PC and consoles, with both mouse+keyboard or Xbox game controllers. I've also been playing FPS games for the past 20 years. Games such as Quake 3 Arena, Unreal Tournament, Soldier of Fortune 2, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow - Spies VS Mercs, etc.

In the following video, I'm testing my new Logitech - G502 Proteus Core while playing Conter-Strike, which is why I'm aiming at my wonderful teammates.

https://youtu.be/i2JkH83TqxU

And this is my gaming setup. As you can see, a trackpad is extremely small in comparison to the space that I got on my mouse pad.

https://christianphilippe3d.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/20161228_033021.jpg

[Guy_From_Hell]

As I said before, I've played FPS games at a ''really high'' level Online on both PC and consoles, with both mouse+keyboard or Xbox game controllers. I've also been playing FPS games for the past 20 years. Games such as Quake 3 Arena, Unreal Tournament, Soldier of Fortune 2, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow - Spies VS Mercs, etc.

So what? I've been for the same time. And no, thumbstick can't be as precise as a mouse (maybe only if we're talking good ol' ball mice), it's how human hand's movements work.

As a game developer blah-blah-blah

As a person who's been in internet for over 10 years, I don't care who you are.
Especially because SC was developed by Valve and they're... you know... game developers... and they're much more successfull than you... if you want bring gamedev experience at the table.

[cammelspit]

@Chris I hate to be THAT guy but that proves nothing. Sure, that like you are pretty good with a mouse, WAY too many people are good with a mouse. Do exactly the same thing with a 360 controller right now. See? I would be willing to bet you can't, no one can. I don't play CS anymore so I can't do it but I have seen equally impressive videos of CS with the steam controller. I am also not really sure what the point you were trying to make here is exactly as you said a few things but I didn't detect a proper point either.

Also, I played CS from the time it's first beta mod for half-life was released all the way through 1.6. My little brother and I were even given the chance to go pro. You know, that offered to pay our way to go and play for cash money. At the time there wasn't enough money in it to be worth doing though and I have no regrets. I started working and got a real life. You seem almost rather braggy, especially without actually proving the point you made earlier, which is the problem. We all know mice are good for aiming, that doesn't need to be proven.

Seriously, not trying to rain on your parade here, buuuut....

[Nagisa]

eh didnt want to start a war was just my openion but. to each there own to me ill take a traditional controller and or mouse over the SC anyday on a FPS. but for other games id give SC a biut more chance. but again as stated meny times that is my own personal feelings on this

and idc what you use each is as good as the other if you have used them enough and have praticed enough i remmeber back when modded controllers come out on xbox ppl said normal controllers could never beat modded controllers i kill panzy modders allt he time without one alot fo ppl might of even seen me and a friend on MW2 quiet often (Zulu98 and ZvColgaZv) as were in the top 1-2 spot quiet often

but again mouse/keybored some may be more accuert with, traditional controller some may prefer and be better with then some might like SC more and so on everyone has there own set up there own style and everyone has what works for them things can be labeld "this is better then this" but really there not it boils down to the player not the methoed used

and just like on xbox im versital enough with a mouse and keybored not just a traditional controller wher eim still fairly highly ranked on FPS on pc could i be better with SC? prolly if i actully sat with it for a few days and forced myself to get the feal for it just liek anything else

[Lazlo]

Threads like this have motivated me to finally upload some gameplay, with Overwatch in this case. FPS is VERY possible with the steam controller and you have to be smoking crack to think that a right thumb joystick is better or anywhere close to the same as a mouse or the steam controller.

https://youtu.be/Zg_tfhCL0J0

[tomk1]

Chris: try changing 'Stick Responce Curve' options

[Chiken_Sammich]

Yep. This thing is a pile. So glad they added support for the PS4 controller. Now I can box this thing up & actually enjoy playing games again.

[cammelspit]

Publicado originalmente por Chiken_Sammich:

Yep. This thing is a pile. So glad they added support for the PS4 controller. Now I can box this thing up & actually enjoy playing games again.

No that's not a troll at all...* <- sarcasm

[DreadLordNaf]

Publicado originalmente por Chiken_Sammich:

Yep. This thing is a pile. So glad they added support for the PS4 controller. Now I can box this thing up & actually enjoy playing games again.

Woah I didnt even realize they did this, but just checked and yep its true. Sweet, as I said in my earlier post the only good thing about the SC is all the customization options that steam gives you for it. PS4 is long been my fav controller and if it natively works on Steam now with all those customization options, then AWESOME!

[cammelspit]

Just be aware that configuring a DS4 is greatly restricted by the sub-par hardware inside it. The gyros are a perfect example. IF they suck when using a DS4, this is because the DS4 has ♥♥♥♥♥♥ gyros. The SCs gyros are about the best and most accurate around. The same goes for using the trackpad as a mouse. Resolution is so low that Sony added a HUGE amount of hardware filtering to make it usable without jumping visibly by large sections of the screen. The SC has a hardware capability in the many orders of magnitude greater. This is just the tip of the iceberg but all of the other failings of the DS are, for the most part, not unique to the DS4 and are also an issue for XBOX controllers as well as things like the WiiU gamepad pro. The only other thing is the cheapness of construction of the DS4. A controller that costs an average of 6$ or less per controller being sold for ten times that much 59.99 is an abysmal F-U to the whole userbase. At least the SC is packed with tech, is more durable, and costs %16.66 less at full price. This is also not mentioning the lack of as many control surfaces, you can't use certain modes on the DS4 because it physically makes no sense to do so... But sure, go right on ahead.

[DreadLordNaf]

Publicado originalmente por cammelspit:

Just be aware that configuring a DS4 is greatly restricted by the sub-par hardware inside it. The gyros are a perfect example. IF they suck when using a DS4, this is because the DS4 has ♥♥♥♥♥♥ gyros. The SCs gyros are about the best and most accurate around. The same goes for using the trackpad as a mouse. Resolution is so low that Sony added a HUGE amount of hardware filtering to make it usable without jumping visibly by large sections of the screen. The SC has a hardware capability in the many orders of magnitude greater. This is just the tip of the iceberg but all of the other failings of the DS are, for the most part, not unique to the DS4 and are also an issue for XBOX controllers as well as things like the WiiU gamepad pro. The only other thing is the cheapness of construction of the DS4. A controller that costs an average of 6$ or less per controller being sold for ten times that much 59.99 is an abysmal F-U to the whole userbase. At least the SC is packed with tech, is more durable, and costs %16.66 less at full price. This is also not mentioning the lack of as many control surfaces, you can't use certain modes on the DS4 because it physically makes no sense to do so... But sure, go right on ahead.

If i want precision Ill just mouse and keyboard.... If I want relaxed gaming on the couch with little care about gyro ability since the whole point of relaxing on the couch is not to have to sit up right ready for my upper body and arms to swing in to motion, then ill use DS4.

[Lazlo]

Publicado originalmente por DreadLordNaf:

If i want precision Ill just mouse and keyboard.... If I want relaxed gaming on the couch with little care about gyro ability since the whole point of relaxing on the couch is not to have to sit up right ready for my upper body and arms to swing in to motion, then ill use DS4.

Did no one see my post of Overwatch gameplay with a Steam Controller? You're making a very stupid statement like so many others by saying that the SC cannot be precise.

This is a 60 elimination game with Pharah and only 3 deaths. It's Arcade mode, so take that for what it's worth, but with practice the SC is plenty accurate.

https://youtu.be/Zg_tfhCL0J0