Double-tap trigger bindings?

[Yewdiva]

Hello!

I'm a newbie to the steam controller, but so far I'm really enjoying the process of adjusting to it. I use controllers because my wrist disagrees vehemently with keyboards, so I'm quite excited to delve into making some configurations for my K+M only games. Unfortunately, I've hit a snag, and I'm hoping someone can help me with it.

Currently I'm trying to create a configuration for FFXIV that works for me. My hope was that I could set the soft-pull triggers for a single tap, and the full-pull triggers for a double tap of the same trigger to pull up the W-Crossbar. The multiple buttons option works perfectly in the game for the LT+RT hotbars, but I can't set two of the same button. I've tried the Double Press activator, and three separate activators of press-release-press, and neither seems to work to pull up the W-hotbar. Does anyone happen to have any tips for getting a double-tap to work? It seems like the double press should have accomplished what I was looking for, but it seemed to do...nothing. Perhaps I need to try reupdating my firmware.

I'm hoping I'm just making a rookie mistake, and someone out there with more wisdom can help me out!

[Briggs]

Ugh. Yeah. I eventually gave up with that. I had the same idea, and I have almost two years of experiance at the time. I just couldn't get it to work. I also tried something with the second stage. It was just a mess and in the end I just forced myself to get use to doing it "the hard way".

[Deerain]

Have you tried putting 2 regular keypress for the double tap and putting the second one with a start delay. Not sure if it will work but you can try

[cammelspit]

Double press activators are for double tapping a button to activate an action, that is not what is sent to the game. It all depends on the game itself actually. Don't worry about being new to the SCs software, it can be kind of clunky and there is a LOT of stuff you can play with. If your case, this is how I would configure it.

1. Set the trigger to 'exclusive hip fire'
   
2. Make 100% sure actual analog input from the trigger is OFF
   
3. set soft pull to be that trigger
   
4. set full pull to also be that trigger
   
5. enter the activators menu for the full pull and set that to REGULAR press
   
6. make a second activator to also be regular press
   
7. on the second activator you will see an option for start delay, you will need to adjust this according to what the game allows. Further explanation below.

See, what that will do is on soft pull a single press will be sent. If you go right to the full pull it will send a double tap to the game. The delay on how quickly you need to go to the full pull is adjustable. The start delay for the second activator will vary wildly by the game. Some games don't accept inputs if they are either too quick to the first press, the length the button is held down before the second press is made, a combination of the two or even neither of them because that game might just not care.

This is all down to that specific title and every game is different but for the most part, you will want the second press start delay to be maybe two ticks from the left of the slider. The end delay on the first press, on the other hand, is less likely to be a problem but you can also adjust that till your heart's content. What I typically do IF it doesn't work instantly is I will great exaggerate the settings till it works and then back the sliders down until I hit the bare minimum that the game accepts as real input.

If you have any more questions, just ask! :D

[ugafan]

great advice cammel. another double tap method which isn't used as much is to add a mode shift full right trigger pull. an example would look like this.

right trigger soft pull - left mouse click
mode shift - right trigger full pull (nothing bound)

a quick pull and release will activate a double click.

note: this method works reliably in desktop, but i haven't tested in final fantasy.

[cammelspit]

Ah, yes! Good one there. I have done that before, I think you recommended this before in another thread? I usually try to use shifts as little as possible so I have more options left to shift that button, in this case, trigger, to something entirely different if I find I need it later on. Otherwise, yeah, good call on that.

[ugafan]

i've discussed it before, but i can't take credit for being the originator of it. but that's one of the things i like about coming here, people sometimes think of novel ways to do things, which i can then learn and add to the bag of tricks.

[Yewdiva]

Thank you so much to everyone for your wonderful help!

Unfortunately, I can't seem to get either of the methods suggested to work in FFXIV. I've managed to work both methods to a point where they seem like they could, or should, work, however FFXIV seems to vehemently disagree with them. I'm going to keep experimenting, but after two hours sunk into it so far I need a break.

In case anyone has any ideas though, here's what seems to be happening.

With Cammel's method, the game doesn't seem to register the release of the first regular press activator. No matter where the delay start and end sliders are, it only gives me a single regular hold down press.

With Ugafan's method, it does release and reclick, however it doesn't hold the second click like I need it to for my usecase.

[ugafan]

can you set left and right triggers to full pull if you turn analog off?

[raw_bean]

With the second method, could you pull the trigger to the full pull method, then only 'half release' it to keep it held at the soft pull level?

[cammelspit]

Really? Not releasing the first press? huh... I have used this exact method not long ago. I will do a little testing, later on, today and see if there is some kind of bug somewhere. The only other thing I can think of is that game might just be very picky. making Overload switch minion types on a single touch menu action was extremely hard because the timing of everything was incredibly tight for that game. Unfortunately, not much of an FF kinda person myself so I can't test directly with the game in question.

[Yewdiva]

Ugafan - The full pull binding still worked fine with analog toggled off, it's getting that binding to be a double press of the same which is the problem.

Raw-bean - I'm not quite sure what you're asking. With that method, the only thing a full pull gave me was a quick second click, releasing to soft pull did nothing at all.

Cammelspit - Yeah, I think FF14 is just too picky with its input, because I've gotten the binding to work as you described in other applications and games (Not that they needed it, but I had to test somewhere to make sure I was setting up correctly). Your method DOES work, in everything I have tried EXCEPT the game I actually want it in xD

I have actually gotten it to work maybe 50% of the time since my last post, but it's nothing reliable enough to work for combos on a training dummy, let alone any kind of dungeon or raid content. Plus, it's incredibly slow, requiring the start/end delay sliders to be almost completely maxed, so even if it did work 100% it still wouldn't be the right choice for anything but the most casual content.

[cammelspit]

I am really sorry to hear that. If I owned that game I would test it out and see what I could do but as it stands right now, a bunch of fiddling will be needed to find SOMETHING that works. Unfortunately, you just can't do a whole lot if the game really is that picky, at least not without some simple macro recording support.

[ugafan]

Originally posted by YewDiva:

Plus, it's incredibly slow, requiring the start/end delay sliders to be almost completely maxed, so even if it did work 100% it still wouldn't be the right choice for anything but the most casual content.

that's weird it's so long. (using the method cammel described) i'm typically successful setting the start press delay 3 or 4 clicks to the right. no adjustment to the end delay necessary unless it's lots of buttons. i've gotten a 7 button combo in a fighting game to work with a single button press so i'm surprised a simple double click isn't working.

if i had the game there are a couple of other more complicated things i could try to fix it, but unfortunately i don't have this one so i can't see if it would work or not. hopefully someone else who has FF14 and can chime in.

edit: one last thing. you're trying to bind controller buttons to triggers. is there a keyboard key that you could use instead?

i found this list of keyboard controls. perhaps you could try using the keyboard keys to accomplish what you want.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/playguide/win/manual/

[Yewdiva]

@cammelspit - Out of pure frustration, I decided to try testing with a different button. I chose A, to see if I could get it to target and interact with an object in the game with a single button press. With some tweaking of the sliders, it worked without a hitch or a hiccup. It didn't require any adjustment to the end delay, and worked at about 6 clicks to the right on the start delay. However, the moment I changed the binding from A to RT (without changing anything else), it started doing the same thing it had when I was trying to set it up for a full pull of the trigger. I also tried setting the full pull of the trigger to be a double A press, and it worked seamlessly. The only conclusion I can come to is that there's something with the game itself that's causing this issue.

@ugafan - Unfortunately, because I'm using the cross hotbar, there is no way to use keyboard controls for it. It's exclusively controller inputs. Let me see if I can explain a little better.

You can see the hotbar I'm using HERE[i.ytimg.com] (Not my character)
Basically, holding one trigger allows the d-pad and ABXY buttons to activate the lower set of skills. Quickly releasing the trigger and pressing it again allows use of the second set above it. While I was looking through the game menus, I couldn't find any way to change this to be anything but RT and LT.

Ultimately, I think it will be better to simply double bind the triggers to the grips and operate that way. I think something with how FF14 processes the inputs for the hotbars disagrees with how the steam controller inputs the double trigger press, at least as it is currently programmed. Maybe someday Valve will let us record simple macros, and all of this will be fixed.

[cammelspit]

Well, that seriously makes no sense to me. The reason I say this is because when you set the trigger to not have any normal analog input and instead use the soft or full pull, it functions exactly like a regular button. As I was reading I was thinking that the way setting an analog output being done digitally is the equivalent of going from 0% to full 100% press of the trigger without anything at all in between so maybe the game just ignores the input in that case, similar to how some games can ignore JMove input on the pad because it doesn't go through the in between steps to get there. Then you say it works on another button on the controller? That just boggles my mind because I can think of no legitimate reason why it would be doing that. Are you sure you disabled analog for the trigger? https://postimg.org/image/q5ka1kyfz/ I ask only because if that is on then it will interfere with the digital version of the presses. Another thing is maybe you aren't going right to the full pull fast enough and the SC is instead sending just the one press? I also just realized they have literally removed the ability to change the speed delay between soft and full pulls. I wish they would stop removing features...

Oh well, either way, as long as you can get something that works and is comfortable for you. That's all that really matters.