JRPG Characters Always Look Like Children

[Churd]

I suppose they are technically marketed to children, but still... the idea of kids saving the world is kindof old now. Kids are obnoxious little ♥♥♥♥♥ who haven't lived long enough to learn whats-what. I was a kid once, too.

[Separa]

To be fair; a lot of western entertainment is designed around kids/teenagers too. But yeah, I agree; I wish they would diversify more. It's rare to have a MC, in a non-drama, that is above the age of thirty.

This game has flat characters

Not all breasts were design equally. And that's okay; not everything is about size.

[Zunnoab #931]

Great Duck eredeti hozzászólása:

It did not help that Symphonia 2 was not a spectacular game as a whole. But many with cooler jets enjoyed what Namco did with them.

Fundamental ToS2 spoilers incoming in this reply... please do not read if planning to ever play it.

It also doesn't help people seem to get confused and do not realize Ratatosk and 'Emil' are the exact same being, probably because after learning he intentionally split his personality to seal his memories to not blow his own cover he spends most of the last part of the game trying to lead Marta on about it, Tenebrae backing him up the whole game too even lying to Ratatosk/Emil himself to keep his cover up.

Nothing can save the horribly corny dialog in that game, but I think the overall story is very good.

[SkipSandwichDX]

PerfectLife eredeti hozzászólása:

I want to see a JRPG about a group of black kids, who go back in time and stop hitler from killing the jews, and then at the end hitler and the black kids rap about how it's cool to be nice.

I would buy the ♥♥♥♥ outta that game.

[Shan]

busy businessing eredeti hozzászólása:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNMcBAoOSHo

You just won a copy of Half-Life 3 with that post, my good sir!

[Little Game Fairy]

Oh... dear. So unempathetic towards children and vulgar..

Um, well, I feel just the opposite.

And I don't think that stories about children or stories for children can ever be overdone. Children deserve stories they can relate to, too. Children deserve RPGs and video games to play. And heroic characters their age they can look up to.

No age group should be focused on in video games, and there are plenty of adult characters in games, too. It would be bad if there weren't enough child or teenage characters in video games.

And there are plenty of great and not so great characters in all age groups in games. The child characters in Tales of Symphonia are wonderful characters. While there are many adult characters who are very cliche and not so likable. Like adult men who aren't characterized as much more than toxic masculinity machismo being idealized, and someone making as much of a stereotype of masculinity as they can, or adult female characters who aren't characterized as much more than sex objects.

I also think you stereotype what children are like. Yes, younger people under the age of 18 or 20 tend to have less experiences, so they are less mature. Because they have less knowledge and wisdom to have learned, they've had less time to have learned things. But I think it's less "biological" than you think. I never had daily spikes in mood or anger problems as a teenager and I'm sure many other teenagers didn't. I actually think my teenage years were one of the most emotionally well of my life.

[Churd]

ukkosfaith eredeti hozzászólása:

Oh... dear. So unempathetic towards children and vulgar..

Um, well, I feel just the opposite.

And I don't think that stories about children or stories for children can ever be overdone. Children deserve stories they can relate to, too. Children deserve RPGs and video games to play. And heroic characters their age they can look up to.

No age group should be focused on in video games, and there are plenty of adult characters in games, too. It would be bad if there weren't enough child or teenage characters in video games.

And there are plenty of great and not so great characters in all age groups in games. The child characters in Tales of Symphonia are wonderful characters. While there are many adult characters who are very cliche and not so likable. Like adult men who aren't characterized as much more than toxic masculinity machismo being idealized, and someone making as much of a stereotype of masculinity as they can, or adult female characters who aren't characterized as much more than sex objects.

I also think you stereotype what children are like. Yes, younger people under the age of 18 or 20 tend to have less experiences, so they are less mature. Because they have less knowledge and wisdom to have learned, they've had less time to have learned things. But I think it's less "biological" than you think. I never had daily spikes in mood or anger problems as a teenager and I'm sure many other teenagers didn't. I actually think my teenage years were one of the most emotionally well of my life.

We don't have to "think it's biological". Its not an opinion, its fact of human physiological development. Opinions dont even play a role in this one.

[Malice]

Hat eredeti hozzászólása:

This game has flat characters

Stop bullying Symonne.

[Zunnoab #931]

Are people really going to bring biology and real-world logic into a genre where renowned scientists and military leaders are often the magic number 17? You do not have to go that far to make fun of it.

[A_Road_Not_Taken]

Well in univereses at war morew or less based in the middle ages makes sense that the character are very young as in that kind of setting people used to be considered an adult at an earlier time in their lives. For example I know that the Game of Thrones adptation raised the age of the characters, but in the original saga of Song of Ice and Fire the characters were all very young, specially the Stark children, and most of the older characters were 40-50 something at best.

[Little Game Fairy]

Churdington eredeti hozzászólása:

We don't have to "think it's biological". Its not an opinion, its fact of human physiological development. Opinions dont even play a role in this one.

I'm skeptical of this claim you're making. It wasn't something I was taught in biology growing up and a lot of the articles I've read claiming that don't seem to offer a whole lot in the way explaining what exactly is different other than different hormone levels on average or things related to body type.

But it's at least more makes more sense to me than some of the other claims about different demographics having different brains. The claim that people have different brains based upon age is not gender or ethnic biased.

But I'm also skeptical of the field in general because there's a lot of claims made about the mind and demographics that I don't see evidence for that couldn't be explained in some way by culture or brain plasticity.

Definitely there's a difference between the brain of a baby and the brain of an elderly person. For one, the brain of an elderly person is, well, sadlly...

Um, anyway, I'm a bit more skeptical of the idea that the brain of a 17 year old and the brain of a 21 year old are so different, outside of things like gaining memories and knowledge and wisdom. I think that a lot of our wisdom and maturity comes from aging mentally rather than physically.

Not that I'm a total expert on this subject since I haven't seen much about it outside of articles that cite research that doesn't yet prove things. And I wasn't taught something like this in grade school or college, either.

Neuroscience is a very new study, and in the scheme of things, we've learned just fairly recently how plastic the brain is. So a lot of claims about the brain and demographics seem like an unproven hypothesis that needs more research.

I'm much less skeptical about the ones related to age and neuro difference than of gender and ethnicity with such a problematic history going back more than century. But I'm skeptical of claims about neurodiversity related to demographic differences in general.

Having memories and experiences may not be the only component in the average human maturity. But I think it's pretty clear that memories are a factor. A very very big factor. A lot of mental maturity comes from wisdom, and a lot of wisdom comes from knowledge, and a lot of knowledge comes from experiences, and experiences come with time. If there are biological differences between, say, 15 year olds and 17 year olds and 21 year olds that aren't about that, I have my doubts that they're mostly biological in a way that isn't about memories or brain plasticity.

Since I haven't ever seen anything that really explains what you seem to be saying in depth about age and the brain, would you mind finding me an article or such that explains how such brains are different that isn't an unproven hypothesis that needs more research, and can't be explained by brain plasticity or things like that?

What would you say are the physical biological differences between the brain of a 17 year old and the brain of 21 year old? In ways that are independent of brain plasticity.


Also, even if this were the case. Fiction can be imaginative. There's realism, but there's also idealism and cynicism, too. And there's a place for idealism in fiction, as well. And there are cultural differences in what many Japanese video game developers idealize in comparison to what many American and British and Germany video game developers may idealize. Such as things like determination, cuteness, youthfulness, and harmony.

Aging isn't good or healthy, for anyone. It means being closer to death. Aging may be particularly scary in Japan where Japan's aging population is a problem and so is the work environment.

As well, Tales isn't just an RPG, it's an anime RPG. As in, it's a cartoon based RPG that's influenced by a lot of "shounen" demographic anime that idealized determined kids who can do the impossible, have willpower, and personal values. Just like in America, a lot of cartoons are for kids in Japan. Not that all cartoons or video games are for children, but a lot of them are. And Tales is not just a video game, it's a Japanese cartoon based video game. A lot of video games and cartoons are intended for children. Tales and many other Japanese RPG feature children for the same reason that Avatar: The Last Airbender and Star vs. The Forces of Evil feature children as protagonists. And many children want big cool, mature, strong, idealized heroes their age in the entertainment they enjoy, rather than infantilized.

Whether you find it realistic or not, this is true for a lot of fiction, especially fiction which attempts to appeal to children or is idealistic. Power Rangers didn't have Zordon ask for 30 year old, seasoned miltary veterans to save the world, he asked for "teenagers, with attitude". This is what a lot of children want to see, they want to see heroic and powerful versions of themselves, "realistic" or not, not infantilized and belittled.

In fact, not just a lot of cartoons are for children, but also video games. Not all, but many. In fact, after the video game crash, Nintendo marketed the Nintendo NES as a toy. It's wrong to say that video games or cartoons are for children or for children or any demographic only. But it's also wrong to say that video games and cartoons shouldn't try to appeal to children. After the Atari video game crash, video games were successful and back in the spotlight again, when they were marketed as toys.

Pokemon is also a JRPG, and it features child heroes and child protagonists who set out on a very independent, very non-infantizing journey. It's a game that children and adults both do and should like, because they're great games. But they do try to appeal to children. As do many JRPGs. Tales and a lot of JRPGs don't actually have that big of a demographic difference with Pokemon.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with appealing to children. And adults should be open minded and mature enough not to belittle entertainment, just because the protagonists are children.

Furthermore, with a lot of adult people who aren't NEET in Japan finding it hard to find time for video games, it's a good idea to appeal to children. It's good economically. Youkai Watch is one of the most popular new video game series in Japan because it appeals to children. And also, the future of entertainment in general often relies on appealing to children so that a new generation enjoys their work. There is a generation of kids who have grown up on RPGs like Tales of the Abyss rather than Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy VI or Final Fantasy VII. It's unhealthy for the future of any medium when it takes its focus too far way from appealing to children.

[Separa]

Well, on the subject of age; I'm of the opinion that we treat people like they're kids for too long. There's a reason that teenagers are often so quick to rebel and prove themselves. They may not be fully developed mentally or physically, but they're ready to move out of the nest and to find their own path in this world. And the sooner they do that, the faster they will learn.

Anyway, even with that said; I still think we could do with more older characters, in games. There's usually only one or two, in the typical JRPG party, for example. That doesn't seem right to me. It would be fine, if only some of them were like that; but they're pretty much all like that.

[terry309]

Pretty sure Kaim Argonar is like 1000's of years old

[terry309]

The Universal Void eredeti hozzászólása:

Well, on the subject of age; I'm of the opinion that we treat people like they're kids for too long. There's a reason that teenagers are often so quick to rebel and prove themselves. They may not be fully developed mentally or physically, but they're ready to move out of the nest and to find their own path in this world. And the sooner they do that, the faster they will learn.

Anyway, even with that said; I still think we could do with more older characters, in games. There's usually only one or two, in the typical JRPG party, for example. That doesn't seem right to me. It would be fine, if only some of them were like that; but they're pretty much all like that.

I do kinda agree, Valkyrie Profile did it with Lenneth and it worked. Next I want a JRPG where we play as a bearded main protaganist. I'm serious, I don't care how old they are either. Most 20 year olds have facial hair, why do JRPG's ignore this?

Oh and by the way, I want more of this in my JRPG's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJkgcvNNnko

Old bearded guys with scottish accents wielding giant greatswords... thats what I want for the next tales cast after Berseria.

[Churd]

ukkosfaith eredeti hozzászólása:

Churdington eredeti hozzászólása:

We don't have to "think it's biological". Its not an opinion, its fact of human physiological development. Opinions dont even play a role in this one.

I'm skeptical of this claim you're making. It wasn't something I was taught in biology growing up and a lot of the articles I've read claiming that don't seem to offer a whole lot in the way explaining what exactly is different other than different hormone levels on average or things related to body type.

But it's at least more makes more sense to me than some of the other claims about different demographics having different brains. The claim that people have different brains based upon age is not gender or ethnic biased.

But I'm also skeptical of the field in general because there's a lot of claims made about the mind and demographics that I don't see evidence for that couldn't be explained in some way by culture or brain plasticity.

Definitely there's a difference between the brain of a baby and the brain of an elderly person. For one, the brain of an elderly person is, well, sadlly...

Um, anyway, I'm a bit more skeptical of the idea that the brain of a 17 year old and the brain of a 21 year old are so different, outside of things like gaining memories and knowledge and wisdom. I think that a lot of our wisdom and maturity comes from aging mentally rather than physically.

Not that I'm a total expert on this subject since I haven't seen much about it outside of articles that cite research that doesn't yet prove things. And I wasn't taught something like this in grade school or college, either.

Neuroscience is a very new study, and in the scheme of things, we've learned just fairly recently how plastic the brain is. So a lot of claims about the brain and demographics seem like an unproven hypothesis that needs more research.

I'm much less skeptical about the ones related to age and neuro difference than of gender and ethnicity with such a problematic history going back more than century. But I'm skeptical of claims about neurodiversity related to demographic differences in general.

Having memories and experiences may not be the only component in the average human maturity. But I think it's pretty clear that memories are a factor. A very very big factor. A lot of mental maturity comes from wisdom, and a lot of wisdom comes from knowledge, and a lot of knowledge comes from experiences, and experiences come with time. If there are biological differences between, say, 15 year olds and 17 year olds and 21 year olds that aren't about that, I have my doubts that they're mostly biological in a way that isn't about memories or brain plasticity.

Since I haven't ever seen anything that really explains what you seem to be saying in depth about age and the brain, would you mind finding me an article or such that explains how such brains are different that isn't an unproven hypothesis that needs more research, and can't be explained by brain plasticity or things like that?

What would you say are the physical biological differences between the brain of a 17 year old and the brain of 21 year old? In ways that are independent of brain plasticity.


Also, even if this were the case. Fiction can be imaginative. There's realism, but there's also idealism and cynicism, too. And there's a place for idealism in fiction, as well. And there are cultural differences in what many Japanese video game developers idealize in comparison to what many American and British and Germany video game developers may idealize. Such as things like determination, cuteness, youthfulness, and harmony.

Aging isn't good or healthy, for anyone. It means being closer to death. Aging may be particularly scary in Japan where Japan's aging population is a problem and so is the work environment.

As well, Tales isn't just an RPG, it's an anime RPG. As in, it's a cartoon based RPG that's influenced by a lot of "shounen" demographic anime that idealized determined kids who can do the impossible, have willpower, and personal values. Just like in America, a lot of cartoons are for kids in Japan. Not that all cartoons or video games are for children, but a lot of them are. And Tales is not just a video game, it's a Japanese cartoon based video game. A lot of video games and cartoons are intended for children. Tales and many other Japanese RPG feature children for the same reason that Avatar: The Last Airbender and Star vs. The Forces of Evil feature children as protagonists. And many children want big cool, mature, strong, idealized heroes their age in the entertainment they enjoy, rather than infantilized.

Whether you find it realistic or not, this is true for a lot of fiction, especially fiction which attempts to appeal to children or is idealistic. Power Rangers didn't have Zordon ask for 30 year old, seasoned miltary veterans to save the world, he asked for "teenagers, with attitude". This is what a lot of children want to see, they want to see heroic and powerful versions of themselves, "realistic" or not, not infantilized and belittled.

In fact, not just a lot of cartoons are for children, but also video games. Not all, but many. In fact, after the video game crash, Nintendo marketed the Nintendo NES as a toy. It's wrong to say that video games or cartoons are for children or for children or any demographic only. But it's also wrong to say that video games and cartoons shouldn't try to appeal to children. After the Atari video game crash, video games were successful and back in the spotlight again, when they were marketed as toys.

Pokemon is also a JRPG, and it features child heroes and child protagonists who set out on a very independent, very non-infantizing journey. It's a game that children and adults both do and should like, because they're great games. But they do try to appeal to children. As do many JRPGs. Tales and a lot of JRPGs don't actually have that big of a demographic difference with Pokemon.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with appealing to children. And adults should be open minded and mature enough not to belittle entertainment, just because the protagonists are children.

Furthermore, with a lot of adult people who aren't NEET in Japan finding it hard to find time for video games, it's a good idea to appeal to children. It's good economically. Youkai Watch is one of the most popular new video game series in Japan because it appeals to children. And also, the future of entertainment in general often relies on appealing to children so that a new generation enjoys their work. There is a generation of kids who have grown up on RPGs like Tales of the Abyss rather than Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy VI or Final Fantasy VII. It's unhealthy for the future of any medium when it takes its focus too far way from appealing to children.

Let me google that for you:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=at+what+age+does+the+human+brain+fully+develop

[Stoibs]

Yeah this is one of my most annoying jRPG tropes too.
Reminds me of a certain game (Who's name completely escapes me at the moment, and no amount of googling seems to be yielding results) that had a proper 30~something year old protagonist in the NA/Western version - but literally was recoded and had the main character changed to the stereotyped teenager for the Japanese release. So bizarre.

My biggest gripe really though is the overly androgynous characters and faces/models they seem to always use for some reason.
Indeed I have actually been completely caught out more times than I can remember in plenty of these Japanese games when they finally drop the word 'him' or 'he' in a sentence which takes me completely off-guard and by surprise, making me literally doubletake the dialogue and go "Oh! that was meant to be a man all this time?!"