The Masterwork Northern Bow is not a myth

[☃]

But it basically has mythical properties. Best bow in the game.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985554676

[ZeroReady]

Nice find any idea what they would take for trade?

[☃]

I traded a fine elk fur for it quite easily. But it was a fine elk fur after all. And that is worth a lot in trade. Nothing an Owl Tribe master bowman can't handle tho.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985560363

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985560198

[vitokin]

Why would it be a myth? I had many of those..You think you're so awesome lol?

[☃]

Originally posted by vitokin:

Why would it be a myth? I had many of those..You think you're so awesome lol?

Na, just to realize that some players don't find it easy. I'm actually told that I'm pretty awesome though... sometimes.

[g0815krieger]

Originally posted by ☃:

Originally posted by vitokin:

Why would it be a myth? I had many of those..You think you're so awesome lol?

Na, just to realize that some players don't find it easy. I'm actually told that I'm pretty awesome though... sometimes.

Its really hard to find if you search in Driik villages :D

[vitokin]

Originally posted by g0815krieger:

Originally posted by ☃:

Na, just to realize that some players don't find it easy. I'm actually told that I'm pretty awesome though... sometimes.

Its really hard to find if you search in Driik villages :D

Oooh i was in north start tribes

[Shadowdweller]

Only problem is that it's not actually the best bow in the game. Masterwork Longbows are.

[Ezhe]

Originally posted by Shadowdweller:

Only problem is that it's not actually the best bow in the game. Masterwork Longbows are.

Masterwork Longbows are a lot more difficult than Masterwork Northern Bows to find. As for which one is better, Longbows have slightly better stats, but Northern Bows are a little bit lighter. So, it's hard to tell which one is better. It all depends on what you need more.

[NULL]

Originally posted by Shadowdweller:

Only problem is that it's not actually the best bow in the game. Masterwork Longbows are.

As you seem to have found out in the tangential discussion in the other thread, the previous assumptions on longbow's accuracy were not entirely accurate. It turns out the "accuracy" value someone dug from the files at some point (which seems to have been main basis for claims of longbow's greater accuracy) just means longbow is more aerodynamic when the bow itself is thrown.

Which makes perfect sense, they shoot arrows with identical weight and they have identical hitting bower, hence they must also have identical projectile velocity.

But yes masterwork bows, far from being a myth, are extremely common among northern tribes. So much so that I have seen villages selling two masterwork northern bows, and once I saw a village selling masterwork version of every type of bow the northern villages spawn (quick bow, short and northern). Masterwork hunting bow is the actual rare one, since foreign traders don't carry it and they are best bet for finding masterwork (cross-)bows outside the north.

[☃]

The traditional Finno-Ugric Bow (which I assume to be what the Northern Bow is supposed to represent), seem to very closely resemble the Mongolian Horse Bows. And when you shoot a traditional horse bow made from laminated sinew and horns... you will never look at a wooden English longbow the same. I can only assume it is the same with a traditional Finno-Ugric bow, even though it is still made of wood.
Many archers, once they are actually into archery, tend to pick up recurve bow pretty soon, because they are more versatile, and still just as powerful on average. A 60lb draw weight is a 60lb draw weight, just the same as 30, 40, 50, 70, 80, 90 and 120. Although I think most nations do not allow much past 60lb draw for hunting these days. High power bows like 120lb were military weapons of their day. And well... we do know that the Iron Age Finn's didn't exactly have an army until somewhere into the 13-14th century.

Finn bow: https://northernwildernesskills.blogspot.com/2010/10/fenno-ugric-bow.html
Mongol Horse Bow: https://archeryhistorian.com/mongol-bow/

Eh... anyway... sorry to digress.
Masterwork N. Bow is still the best missile weapon in the game, next to the javelin for closer ranges. It weighs less, and this means that many more arrows to carry instead for that extra LB. Crossbows are sort of useless unless you want to get bears easier, or intend on hunting traders wearing heavy armor. But if it survives your first shot (which with a heavy X-Bow they usually don't in the game, unless you are rolling deaf dumb and blind characters to play...), you better be ready for a fight...
The way I actually figure the bows and x-bows, is that the score for power being a single digit, just add a zero to that number to find the representative draw weight in ft/lbs. And so a masterwork one of course adds digits to that first number... +2 I think?... so a masterwork N.Bow or L.Bow has a draw weight of around 100 ft/lbs. Meaning a masterwork heavy crossbow is around the 110-120 ft/lb mark. Which then made sense of a lot of things for me...
Because I really did get a feeling after enough playtime that STR score REALLY helps when pulling a Masterwork N.Bow... I felt I needed a high score in STR to even shoot the bow "properly". And the wiki does seem to confirm my thoughts... so I ran with that and ended up learning how to just plow foes and prey into the void...
Masterwork N.Bow is super effective.
IMHO

As for locations, N.Bow just spawns in the north mostly (obviously), and L.Bow spawns more in the south and southern coasts. From my general experience so far.

[☃]

You know, I guess the crossbows can be a viable weapon in a big raid. When you have dogs and armed companions, and you can just pluck shots pretty easy at targets. I don't recall if they can be used behind a shield, but if so... then yea even more so, being good in a big raid. When other archers are shooting back at you...
I think I would still want high skill with axe combat and dodge, and carry a masterwork carving axe just in case I need to drop the X-bow though.
But I feel like fine and masterwork jav's would still do better as far as economics are concerned, range on X-bows being what they are. Javelin I know for certain you can use behind a shield.
Which is also ... super effective lol
All you need is spear and shield skill and build for throwing (and making javs obviously). You can see what I mean then. Throw your javs out to the last, then run in and poke people in the face

I still feel like we should be able to cast nets at targets *cough* if devs are reading... I mean it should be under the common skill pool (that is hidden but seems to float at 65%?), or be a skill of it's own really. Just called nets, under combat skills. Oh and dual wielding and wrestling. I yearn for these things lol. I'm 99.98% sure some tribe would be good at those things. I'm even as certain that wrestling and combat sports were probably things done at gathering times... get drunk and fite or throw big stones and logs, to impress those maidens. I'd hate to wrestly wrestle with a Seal Tribesman actually. Stout and small in stature is dangerous in a grappling match irl...
I hope gathering times are really unique. Something like each tribe has it's own gathering time during the year and then one big gathering of all the tribes at a summer solstice or something. Idk what traditions they had because I'm not from there, but it will be fun to see what the devs deliver when/if they get to those paths on the roadmap.

[Shadowdweller]

Originally posted by NULL:

As you seem to have found out in the tangential discussion in the other thread, the previous assumptions on longbow's accuracy were not entirely accurate. It turns out the "accuracy" value someone dug from the files at some point (which seems to have been main basis for claims of longbow's greater accuracy) just means longbow is more aerodynamic when the bow itself is thrown.

This issue here is that the devs have been known to introduce hidden modifiers based on their perception of reality and history. On top of which, it has been my personal recollection and experience that Long- and Short- bows are more accurate. And furthermore, I recall having tested the accuracy in the past. It HAS been years though, so I thought I might as well give testing another go.

My test used a Kuikka-tribesman with a 64% bow skill (I wanted to try something that wasn't SUPER high), 9/10% encumbrance (went down as arrows were fired), using a short and northern bow to hit a young pine at 15 paces. Every 25 shots, I restored my savefiles to the original, to keep things like possible weather variation consistent; as I happen to know for a fact that there are a lot of variables in ranged combat including target elevation, size, movement, etc.

I collected data on perfect shots (very little deviation), steady shots (small deviation), non-steady/wild shots (large deviation), and actual # of hits. Keeping in mind that deviation is randomized and can actually deviate TOWARD the target even on a completely wild shot and still hit. In 200 shots each, my figures were:

Shortbow - Perfect 23 (12%), Steady 94 (46%), Unsteady or Wild 82 (41%), Hits 19 (9.5%)
Northern Bow - Perfect 24 (12%), Steady 113 (56.5%), Unsteady or Wild 63 (31%), Hits 36 (18%)

So the Northern Bow actually proved more accurate. Unless there's some difference when it comes to bypassing obstructions or hitting moving targets. Put another way: I might be wrong about this. So much for my personal experience. Need to actually track down a Longbow and see how it compares. Maybe try out a primitive bow too.

[Shadowdweller]

Originally posted by Ezhe:

Originally posted by Shadowdweller:

Only problem is that it's not actually the best bow in the game. Masterwork Longbows are.

Masterwork Longbows are a lot more difficult than Masterwork Northern Bows to find. As for which one is better, Longbows have slightly better stats, but Northern Bows are a little bit lighter. So, it's hard to tell which one is better. It all depends on what you need more.

Depends how you define "difficult". I see Masterwork Longbows for sale much more often in Driik and from Foreign Traders, for instance. And most of my characters don't otherwise usually have much reason to head up north. Northern villages are a bit of a chore to track down as well...not being surrounded by fields and stuff. Easy to miss sometimes in the middle of dense forests. Of course, northern bows are more common to find in individual tribal villages than longbows are amongst the Driik, so...

[Vitowns]

Real men throw axes... bows is for weaklings

[Rhapsody]

It should be far easier to use the shorter and lighter composite recurve bow than longbow in the terrains of URW. In the hands of a master, they should both deliver same amount of damage, as that is the point of having composite recurve bow in the first place – to carry power comparable to larger, single piece bow with a smaller weapon, at the expense of more complicated and sensitive construction.

Fortunately you can use both if you wish, but I think they make each other redundant. If you already have masterwork longbow, you probably don't need to spend your merchandise for northern bow of that quality.