"Trolls Not Dumb!"

[GrandMajora]

So, Shadowrun newbie here, never even touched the PnP version of this game before. So I'm not completely knowledgeable about the lore, or mechanics of the game.

However, I can't help but notice during character creation that the game explicitly points out there is no actual evidence that proves Trolls are any less intelligent than normal people. And yet, they have the lowest intelligence cap out of any other race.

Even the Orcs can become smarter than them!

So what gives? How can Trolls be just as capable of producing intelligent members of society as the other races, if the in game mechanics puts them at the lowest end of the spectrum?

[fauxpas]

Because in the actual PnP game trolls (and orcs) aren't as smart as humans either.

[fauxpas]

Depending on what game edition, theories range from brain damage caused by goblination itself (the first goblins were humans that transforms into orcs/trolls once the mana levels rose high enough to trigger the meta genes), to a lack of proper education, to simply ignoring the mechanical truths of the game.

[fauxpas]

Although something to bare in mind is that the "average" meta human has a score of 2-3 in thier stats in the actual pnp game, so lore wise most trolls are actually as likely to be "average" as nontrolls.

[SwampDragon]

Just because there is no evidence of trolls being less intelligent doesn't mean that's not the case. You have the benefit of a character sheet after all. It's also probably not very polite to bring up the fact that trolls and orcs might be less intelligent.

[Lord Of Dorkness]

Always took the lowered max cap on intelligence as part of the way trolls & other non-pretty monsters are so heavily excluded from society.

You can have the sharpest mind in your generation, and it won't actually matter if your refused service in every bookstore and library 'because the stupid troll will just break things.' That sort of thing.

Even the most decorated Nobel winner learned their ABCs once upon a time, after all. If you aren't allowed those building basic blocks to stand on first, you won't reach as high no matter how hard you build.

[fauxpas]

The problem with that theory is that most education is done over matrix links, where your avatar can be anything at all, so the owner would never realize you were a goblinoid in the first place.

[Lord Of Dorkness]

'Sorry, Sir, we don't have any tablets in your size in stock.' That's off the top of my head.

Besides, there's a difference between finishing your basic education, and a Doctorate. Sooner or later, you'll need to pour your butt into a seat, espacially for stuff with practical exams like, say, chemistry. Even for distance courses.

[fauxpas]

You're making stuff up that was never supported by the rules or the lore. Firstly, even in the 2050s, no one used turtles (which a tablet would be considered) unless they had no other option, so your example would be an off the self baby deck and either a trode net or a 'jack, both of which had an open availability rating, which means you could literally buy them from your local stuffer shack, no matter what your race was.

Things are even easier in the 2070s as commlinks are so customizable that people build them into jewelry even.


Also, something of note is this; in Shadowrun, having a high Intelligence IS NOT how educated you are (that is covered under knowledge skills), but is instead your innate raw ability, and even a Trog that grew up with a silver spoon in her mouth can never match the potential of a gutterpunk human who literally melts her neurons with BTLs on a daily basis.

[Ghostfriendly]

Registering for even online education may require a SIN, and money? Negative stereotypes of trolls and orks are also going to impact the self-image and abilities of the trolls and orks themselves.

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by Ghostfriendly:

Registering for even online education may require a SIN, and money? Negative stereotypes of trolls and orks are also going to impact the self-image and abilities of the trolls and orks themselves.

Once again, Intelligence =/= Education in the Shadowrun rule set; in fact there is nothing preventing someone with average (or even below average) intelligence from earning a doctorate in the rule set, although they'd have to put more effort into the appropriate knowledge skills as represented by spending karma (or build points).

But as to education; per lore the corps provide "free education" even to the SINless, at least enough to ensure a completely disposable and placated manual labor force. (Granted, said education is stated as being corp propaganda, but it's there.)

Also, once again; a trog born with a silver spoon in her mouth, with a fully functional SIN and enough money to buy whatever tutors her parents desire will NEVER be able to reach the same innate potential as a SINless BTL burnout breeder, and before you scream "systematical racism"; in the Sixth World, money and SINs are what matter, and if you really believe that a human gutterpunk is fed positive self image ... well, you're wrong.

[Kobalobasileus]

OP, it's a throwaway SJW bait line. Mere virtue signalling about how progressive and in love with racial equality the devs are.

[Ninthshadow]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Although something to bare in mind is that the "average" meta human has a score of 2-3 in thier stats in the actual pnp game, so lore wise most trolls are actually as likely to be "average" as nontrolls.

This is the correct answer; Most 'wageslaves' (aka, average citizens) will not have many attributes above the norm. In this sense, there is nothing stopping a Troll from being average Intelligence, or even 'above average'.

But their ceiling is lower. Shadowrunners, who use bleeding edge gear, are highly skilled and are prodigy in magic, are in a better position than most to feel the pinch.

Most importantly however, Trolls are *amazing* with the upper limits on physical stats, paticularly body. No one gets even remotely close. They can be a literally walking wall of HP. And their 'shortcoming', Intelligence, caps out at 9 for everyone. Trolls can reach 8~ iirc using cyberware, making them perfectly serviceable Combat Deckers and Riggers.

In fact, most of my INT inclined characters usually end up using 'ware for those last 2 rows anyway to save Karma. So, at least in terms of SR:HK, they aren't acutally limited in any real way.

[fauxpas]

It's more painful in the pnp.

[master_errant]

Trolls are less intelligent because that's haw it is....we do not tell them they are so because they can pick you elf up by the ears and snap them like a wet towel...Fomr another perspective. trolls are not so must "less intelligent" ans they are optimally physical. after all a 6 int is still bassically genius level

[Marcos_DS]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

However, I can't help but notice during character creation that the game explicitly points out there is no actual evidence that proves Trolls are any less intelligent than normal people. And yet, they have the lowest intelligence cap out of any other race.

Normal people - and "normal" is the relevant keyword here. Normal values in the Shadowrun P&P setting are 2-3. And a Troll pays just as many attribute points to get to those normal values.
Whats different is just the max value or cap. So an extremely intelligent human will be more intelligent than an extremely intelligent troll. But a normal human will be about as intelligent as a normal troll.