PVP system and offline players.

[Okim]

Hi.

First of all - the game is great. I got suck in it so deep that i even abandoned Space Engineers and many other survival/craft titles.

I like the island, the dinos and other creatures. Like both PVE and PVP systems. BUT. What i don`t really enjoy is being killed, looted and destroyed while being away. Why? Simply because no matter of defences you make can keep your base safe for the hours that you are not present on the server (work, family, other things - i doubt that many people sit whole day long playing games).

What i propose is a simple server-related checkbox that forbids any damage to be dealt to offline player`s bases (i.e. any constructed floor, wall, door, ceiling and chest items). It should be left on the server owner`s decision to include it or not.

Player versus player means a type of gameplay where both players are able to perfor actions against each other - not when some is offline and is entirely at a mercy of some other guys trying to get his/her stuff.

Note - i`m not against looting or otherwise hostile player-to-player interactions. I enjoyed fending my base as well as stalking the other guys in this game (there is even a post nearby about some guy feeding an entire offline tribe to the megalodons!). What i`m against - are the actions that you can make while your opponent has no way of defending against. Tamed dinos are not the proper way (though a clever and nice one) to fend off hostiles while you are offline.

[Reaganomicon]

*owns every building in the base*
*logs out the moment there's a raid*

[Okim]

Hm. That`s the good point.

Perhaps making a cooldown timer (30 minutes) which the looter/raider can use to break in once the last member of the tribe goes offline.

Once the time ticks out - no damage could be dealt.

P.S.: 30 minutes might be too long, but will discourage players to leave their bases during raids.

[Reaganomicon]

Originally posted by Okim:

Hm. That`s the good point.

Perhaps making a cooldown timer (30 minutes) which the looter/raider can use to break in once the last member of the tribe goes offline.

*hides in a bush for two hours*
*dude logs in*
YESSS ENTIRE BASE IS VUlner- wait no just his house is, who owns the walls around it again? D:

spoiler: guy who owns the walls hasn't logged in weeks

[dacarpen]

I fully agree with the sentiment, I'm just not sure what the proper solution is. As others are pointing out, simple invulnerability while offline is fraught with exploits.

[Nosgoth]

Or there should be more lower level defences to make people think twice before attacking .

[Okim]

Originally posted by IRONIC WAR CRIMINAL:

Originally posted by Okim:

Hm. That`s the good point.

Perhaps making a cooldown timer (30 minutes) which the looter/raider can use to break in once the last member of the tribe goes offline.

*hides in a bush for two hours*
*dude logs in*
YESSS ENTIRE BASE IS VUlner- wait no just his house is, who owns the walls around it again? D:

spoiler: guy who owns the walls hasn't logged in weeks

Yeah, another good point.

[SnugglyPuffs]

Stronger defences (tough walls, traps) and a tracking system to track down assailants and vandals could help. If you raid someones home and kill them and destroy their things just to be tracked down later by trail and scent then there's some deterrent.

This also provides more social interaction and bounty hunter job potential as well for the properly skilled characters.

In addition there need to be stronger death penalties.

[DOMinus]

Originally posted by SnugglyPuffs:

Stronger defences (tough walls, traps) and a tracking system to track down assailants and vandals could help. If you raid someones home and kill them and destroy their things just to be tracked down later by trail and scent then there's some deterrent.

This also provides more social interaction and bounty hunter job potential as well for the properly skilled characters.

In addition there need to be stronger death penalties.

These are all terrible ideas. All they realy need to do is reduce the cost of stuctures. 80 wood for a simple foundation is too much. This is why people feel bases suck at the moment because it takes so much to farm and make only to have it broken so quickly. lower the cost and the complaints will deminish.

As for the death penalty it already is pretty harsh, you lose everything you're carrying. Make it any tougher and it will just piss people off who just get killed repeatedly.

[SnugglyPuffs]

Originally posted by DOMinus:

Originally posted by SnugglyPuffs:

Stronger defences (tough walls, traps) and a tracking system to track down assailants and vandals could help. If you raid someones home and kill them and destroy their things just to be tracked down later by trail and scent then there's some deterrent.

This also provides more social interaction and bounty hunter job potential as well for the properly skilled characters.

In addition there need to be stronger death penalties.

These are all terrible ideas. All they realy need to do is reduce the cost of stuctures. 80 wood for a simple foundation is too much. This is why people feel bases suck at the moment because it takes so much to farm and make only to have it broken so quickly. lower the cost and the complaints will deminish.

As for the death penalty it already is pretty harsh, you lose everything you're carrying. Make it any tougher and it will just piss people off who just get killed repeatedly.

Building a base that is easily destroyed and broken into at lower resource cost isn't a good solution. It should require serious investment to build a worthy homestead, but it should be equally difficult (and risky) to destroy.

What is wrong with a skill set to track down assailants? I fail to see the problem there.

A stiffer death penalty is really only necessary in regard to PVP deaths, for the assailant.

[=7CAV=PVT.Binks.J]

Originally posted by SnugglyPuffs:

Originally posted by DOMinus:

These are all terrible ideas. All they realy need to do is reduce the cost of stuctures. 80 wood for a simple foundation is too much. This is why people feel bases suck at the moment because it takes so much to farm and make only to have it broken so quickly. lower the cost and the complaints will deminish.

As for the death penalty it already is pretty harsh, you lose everything you're carrying. Make it any tougher and it will just piss people off who just get killed repeatedly.

Building a base that is easily destroyed and broken into at lower resource cost isn't a good solution. It should require serious investment to build a worthy homestead, but it should be equally difficult (and risky) to destroy.

What is wrong with a skill set to track down assailants? I fail to see the problem there.

A stiffer death penalty is really only necessary in regard to PVP deaths, for the assailant.

It shouldn't take 6 hours to build a 5x3x2 house.

[Kruger]

Pretty cool idea SnugglyPuffs! That'd be one way.

The log out / vuln timer seems like it would work.

If some player made the walls of your base then hasn't logged in for weeks...well then a simple decay timer would fix that. The walls would slowly decay over time and require maintenance and once any other player from that tribe repairs the walls they become the custodian of said wall.

Trick would be to make your fortification strong enough to withstand the 30 min vuln timer. reinforcing of doors/gates and structures could be an entire engram set...reinforcing would be a high resource cost and take some serious effort to accomplish.

I forsee a bit of whine kick n screaming regarding this persistence. People will only want to rebuild so many times before they get burned out.

I'm not sure what the answer is, I like the way it is now...it is dangerous and that is part of the hook that got me...but I know my group and I got pretty burned out in H1Z1 with base re-makes..

[Drathmar]

Honestly, I don't mind the base itself being able to be attacked, but I would prefer it if people themselves were only around for an hour after logging out. So it gives you time to find them sleeping etc, but also means if they choose a decent place to log they actually have a chance of coming back without having died.

[SnugglyPuffs]

Originally posted by theskull07:

Originally posted by SnugglyPuffs:

Building a base that is easily destroyed and broken into at lower resource cost isn't a good solution. It should require serious investment to build a worthy homestead, but it should be equally difficult (and risky) to destroy.

What is wrong with a skill set to track down assailants? I fail to see the problem there.

A stiffer death penalty is really only necessary in regard to PVP deaths, for the assailant.

It shouldn't take 6 hours to build a 5x3x2 house.

I think that it should. A new player or griefer shouldn't be able to log in and spam ♥♥♥♥ everywhere within minutes. There are plenty of casual "survival" (building) games around.

[DOMinus]

The reason tracking doesn't make sense is because people don't have the ability to track others by scent, on top of the fact that when you die you spawn in either a random location/at your bed, so you'd have to leg it back to where you died to catch their scent/trail or are you suggesting that you should just get to know where they are no matter what?

If it were realistically applied on both sides then maybe (meaning you could track their trail but if they jumped in the river to hide their tracks or rain washes away the tracks then it would make more sense).

Stiffer penalty for the assailant? how would that work if you are the one killed? respawn penalty? lost experience? none of that makes.

[SnugglyPuffs]

Originally posted by 382 Zakuaz:

Pretty cool idea SnugglyPuffs! That'd be one way.

The log out / vuln timer seems like it would work.

If some player made the walls of your base then hasn't logged in for weeks...well then a simple decay timer would fix that. The walls would slowly decay over time and require maintenance and once any other player from that tribe repairs the walls they become the custodian of said wall.

Trick would be to make your fortification strong enough to withstand the 30 min vuln timer. reinforcing of doors/gates and structures could be an entire engram set...reinforcing would be a high resource cost and take some serious effort to accomplish.

I forsee a bit of whine kick n screaming regarding this persistence. People will only want to rebuild so many times before they get burned out.

I'm not sure what the answer is, I like the way it is now...it is dangerous and that is part of the hook that got me...but I know my group and I got pretty burned out in H1Z1 with base re-makes..

Making dinosaur guards worth their weight will go a long way towards avoiding an invulnerability timer, I think. Finding the right balance will touch on many aspects of gameplay.

More powerful dinosaurs, a karma system (flags people temporarily criminal who assault non-criminal players or vandalize their property) to penalize/marginalize people who repeatedly die while criminal (respawning griefers), stronger buildings, traps, and the ability to track down players who commit criminal actions like assault/murder, and vandalism. The fine details can all be tweaked but those are the basic fundamentals I would start with if I were a developer working on this game...