Advanced Rifle Bullet VS. Stone Arrow

[Sirthomas]

Hey Peeps!

So after playing Ark for 153 hours on my own server with a friend we finally collected all the materials to summon the broodmother. We decided to make the Assault Rifle first, and make sure we have around 100 bullet's each. While crafting these i was wondering how much dmg they actually did!.

So i did a test, using Admin powers i gave myself

1x Bow
200 x Stone Arrow
1x Assault rifle
200x Advanced Rifle bullet

Summoned 2 Trike's lvled them to lvl 23 and gave them both 1090 hp and put them in a metal box. Set them on Passive so 1 would not attack the other if i attacked it. I shot them both in the right back leg.

Now i had to shoot 54!! Advanced Rifle Bullet's into the Trike, wich would mean 1090/56 is 20.18 dmg per bullet.

And i shot only 19 arrow's into the other trike, wich would mean 1090/19 is 57.36 dmg per arrow..

Now looking at the effort you need to get these things, you need

Bow + 19 Arrow's: (can craft everywhere)
Lvl 15

Bow:
15 Wood
50 Fiber

Stone Arrow:
38 Thatch
19 Flint
38 Fiber

Assault Rifle + Advanced Rifle Bullet's: (need Smithy to make Fabricator and Forge to make gasoline + Metal ignots)
Lvl 55

Assault Rifle:
60 Polymer (120 Obsidian, 120 Cementing Paste)
50 Cementing Paste (170 Cementing Paste =680 Chitin/Keratin, 1360 stone)
35 Metal Ignots (70 Metal)

Advanced Rifle Bullet:
168 Metal Ignots (336 Metal)
504 Gunpowder (504 Charcoal, 504 Sparkpowder (1008 Flint + 504 stone))

You need to burn 504 wood to get the charcoal with this wood you can also make the metal and burn atleast 5 oil with some hide's to get gasoline to let the Fabricator work. Not adding all the mats you need to make a forge + smithy + fabricator...

The balance of weapons seems to be a bit off, if you need to do so much effort to kill a simple trike, how much bullets will it take to kill the broodmother... and how little arrows will it take compared to that.

PS: I did the test again a bit later it took 54 bullets and 20 arrow's. Added a third trike and killed it with a pike was 9 staps.

PSS: Not sure how to add screenshots, but running a server + running the game is to much to also record it for me.

[Bloo]

guns are mainly for pvp from what ive heard

[Ardus]

Try another test with the latest patch:

"- Guns/explosives are 20% more effective against dinos"

[Sirthomas]

Originally posted by Ardus:

Try another test with the latest patch:

"- Guns/explosives are 20% more effective against dinos"

Will do, updating now.

[Steel Jacket]

Originally posted by Ardus:

Try another test with the latest patch:

"- Guns/explosives are 20% more effective against dinos"

You hardly need to do a test if you know it's a flat 20% boost lol.

[Splosions]

Originally posted by Ardus:

Try another test with the latest patch:

"- Guns/explosives are 20% more effective against dinos"

This. Also record how long it takes. 54 bullets but probably killed it in 1/4 the time vs the arrows

[Sirthomas]

Originally posted by Splosions:

Originally posted by Ardus:

Try another test with the latest patch:

"- Guns/explosives are 20% more effective against dinos"

This. Also record how long it takes. 54 bullets but probably killed it in 1/4 the time.

Will do this aswell and calculate the Damage per second

[Fusion]

Originally posted by Splosions:

Originally posted by Ardus:

Try another test with the latest patch:

"- Guns/explosives are 20% more effective against dinos"

This. Also record how long it takes. 54 bullets but probably killed it in 1/4 the time vs the arrows

This. Also pay attention to stamina, which uses more?

[BigDally]

Yeah I believe one of the devs said that some guns are more deadly based on rate of fire? In other words more dps because you can get more bullets off than arrows? Great test though, it's good to see real in game comparison results.

[Sirthomas]

Originally posted by Fusion:

Originally posted by Splosions:

This. Also record how long it takes. 54 bullets but probably killed it in 1/4 the time vs the arrows

This. Also pay attention to stamina, which uses more?

Note :

Adding a stopwatch, and checking stamina.

[Telerion]

Don´t get me wrong plz this is no offence, but your "Test enviroment" is a little bit.....well crap. You can´t count the pure dmg into effectivness of a weapon. An enemy who stands still in a box and can´t fight back is something you will never see.
A moving target that knocks you back is a target you maybe miss with an arrow on longer range. An assult rife with less dmg but a way better accuracy will hit way more often on long range (with a scope you never miss ;)).
As Splosions said, the Assult rifle has a higher rate of fire, wich means that the enemy maybe don´t reach you in time. This is importend when you fight aginst scorpions, spiders and everything that poisen you. A weapon that is expensive and weak but kills an enemy before it reaches you is far more superior then a weapon that has high dmg and is cheap to build but a few enemy hits and you fall asleep and will get eaten alife.
Like i said, this is no offence, but dmg is not the only value of a weapons effectivness.

[Sirthomas]

If you miss a trike with a arrow... then your a pretty lousy shot no offence, even if its walking towards you.

Getting hit and falling asleep (scorpions, spiders and boa's) you actually walk faster backwards then they do forwards. Normally i pike them 2-3 hits there usealy dead and i dont get hit. Did not try to kill them with arrows yet, seeing there easy to kill. Adding the effort to make the bullets it would be a waste to use them there.

PS: Test after the Patch, 7.6 seconds and 40 bullets to kill Trike with a gun!. thats 142.7 dmg per second and 27 dmg per bullet. The Trike with the arrows took 20 Arrow and 30.1 seconds, making it 54.25 dmg per arrow, and 36 dmg per second. So you kill it 4 times as fast, asuming you hit everything with both the arrows and the bullets. It takes you me 1 min and 20 seconds seconds to get the mats for 20 arrow. how long do you think it will take me to get 360 Charcoal (360 wood + the time to burn it), 720 Flint, 360 stone, en 240 metal, + the oil + hide to make gasoline.

Ok the balance between the bullets might not be that much off, but the effort to make them compared to the arrows is way to high, you have to clim a mountain, dive to the bottom of the ocean, mine a complete mountain for the flint and stone, and burn a forest to kill 1 dino. Compared to the 4 tree's 5 bushes and 4 rocks you destroy with arrows.

[Grim Sorrow]

Originally posted by Sirthomas:

If you miss a trike with a arrow... then your a pretty lousy shot no offence, even if its walking towards you.

Getting hit and falling asleep (scorpions, spiders and boa's) you actually walk faster backwards then they do forwards. Normally i pike them 2-3 hits there usealy dead and i dont get hit. Did not try to kill them with arrows yet, seeing there easy to kill. Adding the effort to make the bullets it would be a waste to use them there.

PS: Test after the Patch, 7.6 seconds and 40 bullets to kill Trike with a gun!. thats 142.7 dmg per second and 27 dmg per bullet. The Trike with the arrows took 20 Arrow and 30.1 seconds, making it 54.25 dmg per arrow, and 36 dmg per second. So you kill it 4 times as fast, asuming you hit everything with both the arrows and the bullets. It takes you me 1 min and 20 seconds seconds to get the mats for 20 arrow. how long do you think it will take me to get 360 Charcoal (360 wood + the time to burn it), 720 Flint, 360 stone, en 240 metal, + the oil + hide to make gasoline.

Ok the balance between the bullets might not be that much off, but the effort to make them compared to the arrows is way to high, you have to clim a mountain, dive to the bottom of the ocean, mine a complete mountain for the flint and stone, and burn a forest to kill 1 dino. Compared to the 4 tree's 5 bushes and 4 rocks you destroy with arrows.

I agree

[Sirthomas]

Originally posted by Fusion:

Originally posted by Splosions:

This. Also record how long it takes. 54 bullets but probably killed it in 1/4 the time vs the arrows

This. Also pay attention to stamina, which uses more?

Fusion, neither shooting arrow's or a gun takes any stamina.

[Telerion]

Originally posted by Sirthomas:

If you miss a trike with a arrow... then your a pretty lousy shot no offence, even if its walking towards you.

.......

You miss my point, i don´t say that you or i or someone else is missing permanently with a bow, but it is more likely then with the rifles.
To the scorpoins, you miss my point again. I pike the ♥♥♥♥ out of everything that cross my path, sure most ppl do it.
But still, it is a point you need to consider if you test a weapons effectivness.
I don´t say the weapons are good or anything, but raw dmg output is not enough do juge a weapon. Well, and it does not count if you are a good shotter or bad one, you test the weapon, not the user ;).

I really like the test, really, but it is only halfe of a test to test effectivness of a weapon.

A little example:
2 Man in an arena fighting to the death. One is naked and armed with a sword. The other is unarmed but wearing a full Power Armor from Fallout. Is the sword better then the fists? Who will win?

I say it again, this is no offence, and i agree that the cost is way to high atm, but i disagree that the weapons are bad at all. Don´t get me wrong, i pike every dino, even a T-Rex because it is a strong weapon and with enough HP and a good flak armor it is not that hard, but i would not say the pike is the most effective weapon in the game.
It depends on the circumstances, the dino, your skill, your armor and so on. I don´t think you use a rocked launcher to kill a Dodo, or a assult rifle against a dilo, but both weapons can get handy in another situations.

[Sirthomas]

Originally posted by Telerion:

You miss my point, i don´t say that you or i or someone else is missing permanently with a bow, but it is more likely then with the rifles.
To the scorpoins, you miss my point again. I pike the ♥♥♥♥ out of everything that cross my path, sure most ppl do it.
But still, it is a point you need to consider if you test a weapons effectivness.
I don´t say the weapons are good or anything, but raw dmg output is not enough do juge a weapon. Well, and it does not count if you are a good shotter or bad one, you test the weapon, not the user ;).

I really like the test, really, but it is only halfe of a test to test effectivness of a weapon.

A little example:
2 Man in an arena fighting to the death. One is naked and armed with a sword. The other is unarmed but wearing a full Power Armor from Fallout. Is the sword better then the fists? Who will win?

I say it again, this is no offence, and i agree that the cost is way to high atm, but i disagree that the weapons are bad at all. Don´t get me wrong, i pike every dino, even a T-Rex because it is a strong weapon and with enough HP and a good flak armor it is not that hard, but i would not say the pike is the most effective weapon in the game.
It depends on the circumstances, the dino, your skill, your armor and so on. I don´t think you use a rocked launcher to kill a Dodo, or a assult rifle against a dilo, but both weapons can get handy in another situations.

I get your point, and i might have stated my problem a bit wrong, i dont fully disagree with the dmg that the gun does, i disagree with the hours of work compared to the dmg it does.

If you want the game realistic, a survival game, play to evolve. Then i think in real live, that a arrow and a gun would do equel dmg, the gun might actually do more. The logic behind you have to shoot 3 bullets to equel the dmg of 1 arrow is pretty weird then. Or the fact that i can make a full flak armor set with 60 metal ignot's but only 20 bullets ><

Okee the games would be pretty easy if you make 100% realistic weapon dmg, if i shoot a t-rex in the brains with a handgun and it falls down i would complain.

Lets state it like this, i like this game, you start with nothing, hit tree's to get a pickaxe, use it to hit metal to get a metal pickaxe, with a metal pickaxe you get more metal but then it starts to get weird, the metal stuff, Pike, Metal hatched, Metal Pickaxe, are pretty cheap and normal to make, even the metal floors make sense compared with the mats you need, but when you come to the guns.. it go's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crazy with cost,

Want a holo-scope on your gun, sure clear 2 caves for 40 crystals, and 140 metal. Dive to the bottom of the ocean to collect 90 silica pearls, collect a 20 oil for gasoline while your add it kill a shark for the hide's. Oh you actually want a gun with that, well then! kill around 200 scorpions for there skins around 720 of them, go to the end of the cave or the top of a volcano to collect 120 obsidian, while your at it collect 1440 stone while your up there and some iron, 70 should be enough. Good job!! You now finally have your gun and scope!. Now all you have to do is get some bullets. Its simple, your gun can fire around 400 bullets before it breaks and your journey resets. So go ahead and destroy that mountain over there for 2400 Metal, chop down that forest for 3400 wood to burn into charcoal, destroy the mountain over there for 7800 flint, and 3400 stone to make sparkpowder combine it with the charcoal for gunpowder and that with the metal into bullets.

Congrats!! you now have 1 gun with a scope and 400 bullets. you can now do! 10800 dmg to the broodmother!

Oh you say what the brood mother has more then 20.000 hp!. Lets do alllllll of that again!

I know there's a multiplayer aspect in this game ofc, lets say you do this with 10 people, you all want that gun then, you can add a 0 to all those mats. You will have to clear the island of all wood stone metal and obsidian !!

Normaly you lvl up and you get better stuff, you need more expancive and harder to get mats to make that stuff, but you do it caus its better. Like the stone and metal pickaxes. You have to journey to the mountain or into a cave to get those. But come on!!!