Alpha T-Rex discussion

[Silberfuchs]

Hi there!

To complement this topic here:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/346110/discussions/0/535152511352131687/#p1

I would like to start a proper discussion about the pros and cons, instead of just saying your opinion.

My own problem is that I am undecided yet. It happens rarely, but this time I really don't know what to think about this game design question. It might be due to missing information about related or directly connected features and mechanics. But here are a few thoughts:

1) If the Alpha was so awesome AND tameable, who would bother taming regular T-rexes any more? The Alpha would simply replace the regular T-Rex and make it redundand, and that would be somewhat of a pity.

2) The thought of having certain dino "compatibilities" sounds really interesting! I am no PvP player, but I can imagine the different dinos have all their uses, e.g. T-Rex and Spino for the main combat, Sabrecats and Raptors for mobility, scouting, surprise attacks and hunting down single players, flyers for getting over walls, dismounting dinos etc., and big herbivores like Ankylos and Mammoths for taking down wooden bases, which means there is already some sense in going in with a mixed group. But having certain dinos affecting other dinos of another species might take that to a higher level, and I like that. I like depth in general.

2.1) Maybe not only buffs, but also tradeoffs or nerfs would be interesting? What happens if there are two Alphas around? By the idea of an alpha it would mean that there would almost imemdiately a conflict be evolving. Tamed alphas might coexist next to each other due to the taming, but their "alpha vibes" might get interfered with due to the unclear leadership role. This means entering combat with two or more alphas might actually hurt your dino army due to a debuff. Another interesting idea would be for example to have the Alpha increase dino damage for example, but lower their health or stamina? Kind of putting them into a frenzy mode or something. Or maybe even make the different buffs of different Alphas affect each other? Maybe there are certain stats buffs with a counter, e.g. "Melee +1" means you get 10% melee damage, and it stacks up to +5, but the last two stacks add "Hitpoints -1" which means if you buff your dinos into melee damage too much, you lose defense. So maybe you should think twice brining a T-Rex Alpha (melee +2) and a Spino Alpha (melee +2) together, because your dinos get more vulnerable that way. Maybe a Carno Alpha (melee +1, speed +1) might be a better alternative?

2.2) What about making the Alpha WEAKER in stats to even out his buff? That way you would turn him more to a "background-supporter". This doesn't fit the role of an Alpha very well, but maybe we can use it in the future for other special dinos? This idea becomes especially interesting in combination with 2.1), which means you have only a single Alpha (because there can only be one - C. Lambert), but at the same time he is vulnerable and you will want to protect him in PvP while at the same time wanting him around. "Take out the Alpha first!" and "Protect our Alpha!" sounds cool, doesn't it?

3.) Another approach would be to make Alphas tameable only by very special means. Either you need some really special food or some item you can knock him out with or something, but this in general isn't a very compelling concept. Something which is hard to farm in terms of efficient gathering or even finding isn't a lot of fun, or having to prepare hundreds of kibbles of a single sort and thousands of narcotics isn't a lot of fun either, all it does is calling for a big tribe where all members spend a lot of time with farming. I think I would prefer some kind of endgame spiral. I haven't summoned the Broodmother yet, but I reckon it's only the first of a couple of bosses (wasn't there that dragon and that white gorilla?), so maybe we can go that way and say that the broodmother drops a certain item which allows you to tame the Carnotaurus Alpha (and is consumed upon the first attempt), and at the same time drops an item which allows you to summon the white gorilla, which drops the items for Spino Alphas and dragon summoning, and the dragon dropping the item for T-Rex Alpha taming. Something like that? I think working towards summoning the Broodmother is relatively entertaining, since it doesn't involve too much farming, it's more about hunting and "dungeon"-exploration, which in itself is fun and entertaining.

4.) If an Alpha was untameable, then at least give them some very special items to make it really worthwile to hunt them, apart from the novelty and the prestige. Something with an actual use or benefit, apart from cosmetics only. But concerning the cosmetics: blueprints for certain, special colours would be interesting, too!

5.) Being able to evolve your own Rex into an Alpha Rex might also be a possible solution, but this needs further thinking.

6.) Another alternative would be to make it tameable, but perhaps not rideable.


That's it from my side for now, if I think of something I will add it here, so check my OP from time to time. Maybe, if there are only a few other reasonable suggestions out there, I might quote them here, too, so people can read everything in the OP and then discuss it below.

[Quelthinaru]

Some good ideas here. Im all for tameable if its done in a fun, challenging and such a way it adds to the game in a fun way. most against it are PvPers afraid alpha tribe is going to have 20 of them even though alpha tribe farms them now.

I do thiunk it might be good to greatly limit the amount tameable or make it hard enough etc that nobody is stacking 20 for a looooong time.

Also like the buff ideas..lots of room there for some neat effects and drawbacks. I just cant see near the fun if its not tameable as thats such a big draw especially for PvErs.
unique drops arent a bad idea either as long as they are awesome enough to make it worthwhile to still get excited when you see em again.

If nothing else let server owners choose if you dont want it official.

[Paganizer]

No matter how hard or long it would take to tame them... they would become a "normal" sight and it would just add to the increasing powercreep. Right now the best you can get is lvl 110+ Rexes done with all kibble.. We already have 3 of those and more coming.. and we are not even a big tribe.
What would be special about alpha's when they are all over the place? And do we really need even stronger tames than now?
If you allow them to be tamed, it should only be for their skin, and not for their power. And then again, what will be special about them, when that skin is all over the place?

I think they should be kept as exotic wildlife that add some spice to the world - extra loot, extra xp, cool battles etc

[Silberfuchs]

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥ balls:

if it's tamable it should turn into a regular rex upon tame, because it's not an alpha anymore seeing as you become the alpha.

He's still Nr.2 after all. Isn't there even a technique to get the alpha animal of a herd of animals under control in order to control the entire herd? But I don't know which one it was, but most likely it was indeed a herd animal. Buffalo or something.

[Silberfuchs]

Originally posted by Paganizer:

If you allow them to be tamed, it should only be for their skin, and not for their power. And then again, what will be special about them, when that skin is all over the place?

Same as there is a global limit for tamed dinos per server, preventing you of finishing the taming process, there could be a limit of one Alpha per dino species per Tribe. Would be difficult to think of all eventualities though, for example players leaving a tribe to tame an Alpha to join in later to kind of "bring another Alpha into the tribe". I think in this case we would need that joining Alpha being unclaimed the instant, that would be the fairest solution I think.

[Josh-Auron]

The only issue with the alpha rex idea, is that people are going to want to tame it, the majority will. But if that is done, then all the other carnivores, besides ons like sabers that are good at farming certain stuff. Will be utterly useless because clearly the alpha rex would be alot stronger making the old ones and carno's obsolete.

It's a nice idea, but if anything, leave it as untamable at least, and a extremely rare spawn, but gives high end loot.

Any more then that and it's going to ruin what the core fundamentals of teh game are.
Things seem to be dragging from the survival aspect, towards the "fancy animals u can own" aspect. The game is "Ark SURVIVAL evovled" right? not "Ark EPIC MONSTERS Evolved".......

Sure people want more n more to do in the game, but is making bigger n bigger n more drasticly powerful stuff really the answer? I mean, how many dino's do you expect one group of people, or even one person to have space for, in the official servers that have 70 slots....

The map isn't big enough to house such large scale stuff, not to mention good luck to any new people with adding mroe n more bigger n powerful things in.

It's already got a huge power gap and potential gap between those who start new, even with levels already gained, compared to those built up.

I think the cons outweight the pros because it will make too much other stuff completely obsolete, and a waste of time. Which is also what people are complainign about with the stone teir, since you can easily skip it. But that is at least managable to the degree that stone is easier for smaller groups to get set up, then a full metal base. But with massive dino's.... not exactly a easy balancing issue.

Yes that kind of is more of a opinion then complete fact I spose, but ehh.

[Josh-Auron]

Instead, why don't we get the other confirmed dino's in, and let people fiddle with them... instead of goign too overboard and making obscene stuff....... May as well add giant bird that can pick up houses, same aspect of oversized boss power.

[wingless2]

Let's just have 2 or 3 tamed Alphas max per server. If you want to tame one, you will have to kill one already tamed. Pure Pvp.
No idea for PvE though

[Josh-Auron]

If they are tamable, may aswell make broodmother and the other two boss's tamable... its the same concept/thing. Big ♥♥♥♥ off creature that is essentialy a boss. And if you say that's too much but a tamable boss rex isnt, your a hypocrite lol.

I fear for how stuff like this will go way too far. And having it around the map.... what if your building up, farming away.... all of a sudden theres a big ♥♥♥♥ off rex destroying all your ♥♥♥♥. Sure it "can" happen already with current os, but atleast them you have a chance, but a big boss rex you would assume would be way more deadly, and good luck to peopel building to survive.

Needs to be a obilisk boss, or even as a server event thing. Or in a specific "semi-secluded area" as it's only spawn that spawns once every so often after it dies. But that's so.... mmo. Not a survival game. The whole idea just doesnt work with the survival genre. It's becoming more about "late game" pvp content, then simple survival content.

[Silberfuchs]

Originally posted by wingless2:

Let's just have 2 or 3 tamed Alphas max per server. If you want to tame one, you will have to kill one already tamed. Pure Pvp.
No idea for PvE though

That would favour the server dominating even more.

How about making Alpha's not tameable, but instead having the option to turn a maximally leveled T-Rex you already got into an Alpha? It's just a quick shot, haven't thought about it properly yet.

[Josh-Auron]

Originally posted by Joker86GERT:

Originally posted by wingless2:

Let's just have 2 or 3 tamed Alphas max per server. If you want to tame one, you will have to kill one already tamed. Pure Pvp.
No idea for PvE though

That would favour the server dominating even more.

How about making Alpha's not tameable, but instead having the option to turn a maximally leveled T-Rex you already got into an Alpha? It's just a quick shot, haven't thought about it properly yet.

Ark Sruvival Evovled.
Not Arkemon Monsters Evovled. lels.
We don't need or want soem pokemon rip off. Just a survival game with dino's kthnx.

[ShaZZa]

Some intersting ideas have been thrown around in the poll thread.

I was mainly aiming for what people would prefer to sort of help the devs out i guess.
This is a good idea though as people can submit how it could be done.
As Kalemendrax said though most people against the tame are pvp'ers which is fair enough.

After a bit of thought (and reading some of the comments) I would still like it tameable but maybe keep it to unofficial servers only and with an option for it to be tameable or not.

[Sona]

In real life, there are some wild animals out there that can never truely be tamed. Not -everything- bends its knee to the "almighty" human.

I don't think the Alpha T-Rex should; that wouldn't make him very... Alpha.

I know this isn't real-life, yadda yadda, but the game obviously takes aspects from real life and its history. Anyway...

I've seen a lot of heartache out on these forums in terms of powerstruggles, and allowing Alphas to be tameable would continue to tip the scales in the favor of the largest tribes.

Now, I know the large tribes still work hard, and they earned their spot on the "food chain." But, (and this is obviously my opinion) making it tameable seems ridiculous.

There really should be an apex predator out there that won't become your cuddly little pet, and could be a real threat on a daily basis (since it doesn't need to be summoned.) I've seen a lot of talk about how easy it gets (on PvE mostly) once you get a little army of dinosaurs, very little is a challenge anymore. Of course it would need that nice loot to be worth the stress of dealing with it; but there needs to be an untameable "boss" out there to bring back the need to be careful and "survive" again. Also, it could give you something else to shoot for in your higher levels.

-The buff is a really neat idea... Instead of making the Alpha tameable to try and get that buff, what if they incorporated a buff from the player? Maybe based on how long you've survived without dying; making you look like an actual Alpha yourself? Just a thought, haha.

[Josh-Auron]

Originally posted by Sona:

In real life, there are some wild animals out there that can never truely be tamed. Not -everything- bends its knee to the "almighty" human.

I don't think the Alpha T-Rex should; that wouldn't make him very... Alpha.

I know this isn't real-life, yadda yadda, but the game obviously takes aspects from real life and its history. Anyway...

I've seen a lot of heartache out on these forums in terms of powerstruggles, and allowing Alphas to be tameable would continue to tip the scales in the favor of the largest tribes.

Now, I know the large tribes still work hard, and they earned their spot on the "food chain." But, (and this is obviously my opinion) making it tameable seems ridiculous.

There really should be an apex predator out there that won't become your cuddly little pet, and could be a real threat on a daily basis (since it doesn't need to be summoned.) I've seen a lot of talk about how easy it gets (on PvE mostly) once you get a little army of dinosaurs, very little is a challenge anymore. Of course it would need that nice loot to be worth the stress of dealing with it; but there needs to be an untameable "boss" out there to bring back the need to be careful and "survive" again. Also, it could give you something else to shoot for in your higher levels.

I agree, lol. Keep the game in lines with its actual name/genre.

[Silberfuchs]

Originally posted by Josh-Auron:

Needs to be a obilisk boss, or even as a server event thing. Or in a specific "semi-secluded area" as it's only spawn that spawns once every so often after it dies. But that's so.... mmo. Not a survival game. The whole idea just doesnt work with the survival genre. It's becoming more about "late game" pvp content, then simple survival content.

I think it's simply what people want. And this includes me.

Survival is always a tedious struggle, and to be honest the survival aspects of the game, e.g. food, water. temperature, etc., are those which I find the most annoying. This game never had a very sohpisticated crafting and survival aspect, and the materials are very basic. Same as with the mechanics, it's more or less always a number lowering or climbing, and you can stop or reset it by doing something particular.

People find more joy in building their bases and taming dinos to hunt and fight. Just because the name says "Survival" it doesn't mean playing the game should always mean being at the edge of dying from a disease, an open wound or something. I know there are people out there who crave that kind of games, but the majority of the playership wants some entertaining fun without constant "timers".

The taming of and fighting with dinos is what sets this game apart from others, and they should indeed focus on that. Which is why I like the Alpha idea very much. We only need to take care that it's implemented properly, and that the devs don't listed to the majority which simply says "An Alpha T-Rex? Would be cool if I could ride that, I'd totally pwn with that thing" and doesn't think any further and simply posts "please make it tameable".

It's a difficulty decision and it needs to be assessed properly!

[iStunod]

I would rather not have a second Rex that is tame-ale; but, I do like the idea of dino's in the world that present a true challenge to defeat. It is completely unbalanced that my level 50-60 dino's (spino and rex) can completed annilate anything in its path in a blink of an eye.

I like the idea of a larger rex, but all dinos should be sized relative to level (low levels would be child-sized and higher levels adult-size). I don't like the idea of a second rex that is larger. There should be one rex. Make all wild rex's as proposed for the big rex, and keep tamed rex's as is today.