Engram system seems like a bad idea.

[azimaith]

So I've just started Ark and I have to say, compared to what I've seen out of other early access (The Stomping Land in particular) its certainly shows a lot of promise. The one thing I can't wrap my head around is why the engram system exists in its current form.

I can understand designers wanting to gate certain things so that characters aren't immediately throwing grenades and spraying automatic fire, but I don't understand why absolutely everything needs to be gated.
Flint axes, clothing, thatch housing, storage boxes, sleeping bags, everything is gated behind engram points.

Is this necessary? I've been running around fresh as a level 5 but its quickly becoming apparent I'm going to need to grind out levels to get access to what is the basic meat of the gameplay.

Grinding through a hundred torches, punching random animals and leaving all the meat because I don't have a place for it seems like the last thing I'd be doing in a survival situation.

Even worse, I forsee this causing serious issues with the spread of the game as well. Ark is a survival game amongst innumerable others of its kind. As such, the ability to entice new players is going to be torpedoed by the constant gating of everything. I can get a friend to join a game if they can get right into the gameplay, but convincing someone to go grind for hours so they can start playing is not so effective.

Now I'm not saying there shouldn't be leveling, or that there shouldn't be recipes you don't know to start, but I am saying that there isn't enough gameplay between levels to make up for the early leveling rate.

A bunch of players can entertain themselves for hours building a wooden fort, but if they can't even get to building wooden forts (because they need to buy walls, doors, windows, and floors separately) then the gameplay is much reduced.

For a game with so much promise (riding megaladons for example) its a shame to see basic elements gated for no good reason.

I'd suggest that beyond rolling certain engrams into single ones (instead of cloth legs, what about just the ability to make cloth, which can spread into many other things) and making early structure building quickly accessible.

[Sperber]

To give you a sense of progression. Works great for single player. In multiplayer it gives you direct benefits from joining a tribe since you can still use anything that others craft for you (it's after all not as strict as in MMOs where items also have level restrictions on using them).

I like the system. Don't change it.

[Jeebus Just]

your complaining about these engrams. have you played destiny.lol. atleast these are usefull engrams. and its a survival game they are literally always grindy in some respect. if you dont like the game dont play it. that simple. dont bag it cos u dont like it, or like everyone else say "my computer wont play it so the games ♥♥♥♥" either deal with it or ask valve for a refund, geez

[Ketobi]

Originally posted by Sperber:

To give you a sense of progression. Works great for single player. In multiplayer it gives you direct benefits from joining a tribe since you can still use anything that others craft for you (it's after all not as strict as in MMOs where items also have level restrictions on using them).

I like the system. Don't change it.

I agree but seeing people stand around and crafting hundreds of notes just to get lvl is "a bit" immersion breaking...

[Sweatington]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/346110/discussions/10/523890681420259357/

Join our server ;) You don't really have to grind.

[[LB] Sorcerer Supreme]

Originally posted by skamaniac:

Originally posted by Sperber:

To give you a sense of progression. Works great for single player. In multiplayer it gives you direct benefits from joining a tribe since you can still use anything that others craft for you (it's after all not as strict as in MMOs where items also have level restrictions on using them).

I like the system. Don't change it.

I agree but seeing people stand around and crafting hundreds of notes just to get lvl is "a bit" immersion breaking...

And creating 200+ ceilings is not immersion-breaking? A grind is a grind is a grind. One way or another. If you kill 300+ dino's or create 300+ structures, both are ridiculous.

If you don't wanna farm, go play CoD. Oh wait... you need to play to unlock new weapons. Well! Go play FarCry 4 then! Oh... you need to unlock abilities while playing.

Cities: Skylin... oh yeah, you need to grow your city to unlock new buildings.

Your argument is so invalid, that is cannot even be applied to games in general. That's why it's a good thing this is a game and not a survival simulator.

[[LB] Sorcerer Supreme]

Originally posted by Mugson:

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

And creating 200+ ceilings is not immersion-breaking? A grind is a grind is a grind. One way or another. If you kill 300+ dino's or create 300+ structures, both are ridiculous.

That's why it's a good thing this is a game and not a survival simulator.

Yes , grind is important part of this game and we love that , i dont remember when last time have seen such a good grind game in other way it is gona be too easy.

Exactly, it's not extremely hard to level, but challenging enough to actually make it to max level. It's not WOW-like grinding where you sit 8 hours on end killing mobs, but it's survival grinding, making stuff, building a house, doing things to actually gain a level.

Even walking gives you xp, so I think the leveling/grinding in this game is EXTREMELY balanced.

[Ketobi]

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

Originally posted by skamaniac:

I agree but seeing people stand around and crafting hundreds of notes just to get lvl is "a bit" immersion breaking...

And creating 200+ ceilings is not immersion-breaking? A grind is a grind is a grind. One way or another. If you kill 300+ dino's or create 300+ structures, both are ridiculous.

If you don't wanna farm, go play CoD. Oh wait... you need to play to unlock new weapons. Well! Go play FarCry 4 then! Oh... you need to unlock abilities while playing.

Cities: Skylin... oh yeah, you need to grow your city to unlock new buildings.

Your argument is so invalid, that is cannot even be applied to games in general. That's why it's a good thing this is a game and not a survival simulator.

Lol

You agree with me without recognizing it.

Btw. l2quote ^^

[Sperber]

Originally posted by skamaniac:

I agree but seeing people stand around and crafting hundreds of notes just to get lvl is "a bit" immersion breaking...

Well, you always have players that always strife to maximize something instead of just enjoying the game (or it's just their way of enjoying it). If it weren't leveling the engrams they would probably just run around gathering tons of resources just to be happy to have 50 storage boxes full of stone and wood. That just can't be helped.

I - like many others - play singleplayer and still have more than 100 unspent engram points at level 40, because I seem to level faster than I'm actually getting around to play with all the toys I've unlocked so far.

[Ketobi]

Maybe... He also missed the point where i agreed with loving the grind.
Just thinking about better ways to do something doesn't mean ditching the whole thing.

[Doc Hussey]

It's not really "grind", it's bad design. Look here. It's 15 Engram for a thatched set (3 each for the five pieces) and it unlocks at level 3 (the whole thing mind you). At that point, you've acquired 24 Engram, which is much better suited for the campfire, hatchet, and the spears at a minimum (9 of 24 leaves you with 13). What about armour (fifteen)? What about the waterskin (three)? Those are fair essentials for a new player. It's also micro-managing bull. It feels like they are making a lack of craftable stuff and simply expanding it by making you unlock individual parts. I can dig it with saddles, since they are different things for different animals, but the rest? It's a tactic to make up for a lack of content. What looks better, 147 unlockables or 65 (as it should be given the item groupings most logical)? It's all fluff and mirrors.
Don't get me wrong, I'm having a blast, but this is one of my annoyances about this game. And by the goddess, there are a lot of annoyances.

[[LB] Sorcerer Supreme]

Originally posted by Doc Hussey:

It's not really "grind", it's bad design. Look here. It's 15 Engram for a thatched set [..] It's a tactic to make up for a lack of content. What looks better, 147 unlockables or 65 (as it should be given the item groupings most logical)? It's all fluff and mirrors.
Don't get me wrong, I'm having a blast, but this is one of my annoyances about this game. And by the goddess, there are a lot of annoyances.

There's logic behind having less engram points than you need to unlock everything:

Tactics.

You can choose what you want when you start: building or surviving. Some people choose building, some people choose a spear and randomly kill everything.
Others build a thatch house somewhere and go from there.

It's definitely NOT bad design, but you're so used to unlocking everything in a game, you can't stand the fact you need to use tactics in choosing your engrams. Besides, this enforces people to actually join a tribe in stead of going all han-solo.

[Doc Hussey]

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

There's logic behind having less engram points than you need to unlock everything:

Tactics.

You can choose what you want when you start: building or surviving. Some people choose building, some people choose a spear and randomly kill everything.
Others build a thatch house somewhere and go from there. It's definitely NOT bad design, but you're so used to unlocking everything in a game, you can't stand the fact you need to use tactics in choosing your engrams. Besides, this enforces people to actually join a tribe in stead of going all han-solo.

Tribes are for people that enjoy MP. I am personally not one of those people. The game boasts "single player" so that fits right along with the themes available.
It's tactics to choose a path, agreed, but seperating all the pieces to an armour set for the sake of some contrived "progression" is just bad design and reeks of disingenuity. It's padding the list for the sake of "content." You get your first level and look down through all the possible engrams and think "Holy crap, look at all that!" then you level a couple more times and realize that you're buying a car. Bolt by bolt.
You're suffering from Stolkholm syndrome mate, we all are to an extent with this game. TSL was a complete letdown. BoP isn't much better IMHO. We've been craving this sort of Jurassic Park for decades, and now that it is here, looks gorgeous, and has active development, we're taking the Pinto and believing it's a Cadillac.

[Otterwald]

Originally posted by azimaith:

...Grinding through a hundred torches, punching random animals and leaving all the meat because I don't have a place for it seems like the last thing I'd be doing in a survival situation...

This is a survival game. Survive! Explore! But please do not grind!

At level 15 I can even build stone walls.
Wooden window frames with Level 20 !!! This is unjustified!

[Doc Hussey]

Originally posted by Mugson:

U are wrong , devs did this all to force players play in multiplayer. This is multiplayer game , if u wants play solo go to singleplayer mode and u can do everything u wants with engram,s reduce cost etc.

I've read a lot of your replies and I'm not sure if you're just a non-native speaker or are genuinely an arse. Either way, let me break it down for you Sparky.

This game have BOTH SP and MP mode. U no that mean ppl gunna play on both n that the devs need 2 rethink thier system and put mor stuff in instead of cheatin.

Alright, for those of you playing the home game, I can't type like that for long, it hurts my brain. Main point here, the devs need to look at their system and re-think it. Don't gild the lily, we like the game, just make it more streamlined and actually give us more stuff instead of forcing ust to buy our homes stick-by-stick.

Also, ♥♥♥♥ people that change settings. The devs designed the options to default to their desires and balance. You change them, you're cheapening the experiance 9 out of 10 times.

[Ketobi]

Originally posted by Doc Hussey:

... snip ...

Also, ♥♥♥♥ people that change settings. The devs designed the options to default to their desires and balance. You change them, you're cheapening the experiance 9 out of 10 times.

I have to politely disagree with the quoted point. You are just plain wrong on this one. Devs design options to give the players the opportunity to customize the game to their tastes and playstyle. If you came out with a cheapened experience after you changed the settings 9 out of 10 times. You just did it wrong 9 out of 10 times.