Realistic Taming

[Shimizoki]

Many people are complaining about the taming process but not providing any concrete usable replacements. There are many arguments for various taming methods just a few of which I will cover, after which I hope to provide a solution that will that will be usable by everyone. Most of the ideas here are my own, but some have been stated by others and partially incorporated. Right after posting I see THIS which has a similar, but less involved idea.

Faster Taming
Pro: Gives the casual gamer the ability to have high level dinos
Con: Makes it easily accessible for anyone to create a horde of rexes (Game Imbalance)

More Active Taming
Pro: Prevents the player from having to sit around watching the progress bar. Possible methods for faster training by being more active. (Prime meat is a currently implemented example)
Con: Taming times are still to long for the casual player, other now have something to do, but its likely as tedious as Mashing E to feed.

Realistic Taming
Pro: Long tames are broken up into multiple stages, some are passive... others are active... all allowing breaks to be taken.
Con: Increased complication to taming process

Process

• Find Dino
  
• KO Dino
  
• Transport Dino to safe location
  
• Tame Dino
  
• Use tamed Dino in any method that may exist.

Find Dino
As simple as walking/flying/swimming to a location with the dino you wish to tame

KO Dino (Optional)
# New Features: A completely pre-prepared KO method that does not require contact with the dino.
Knock out a dino using any number of methods.

• BruteForce. (Punching, Slingshot)
  
• Minimal Damage. (Scorp, Tranqs)
  
• Sly (Narco infested carcas, gas traps, etc.)

Transport Dino (Optional)
# New Features: Dino Transportation method, the advised would implement at least 3 wagon sizes, and perhaps future power methods (flat bed truck)

• Build a wagon (Different size options) pulled by a creature at least the same size, double the count for smaller creatures. (I would advise more than 3 size tiers, perhaps 5)
  
• Wagon could be akin to a multi seat car that requires all riders to walk forward before it moves. Only the "Driver" could steer.
  
• Dodo sized creatures can be hand carried
  
• Dilo requires a wagon pulled by a human or larger
  
• Parasaur can be pulled by a Trike, or 2 humans
  
• Trike could be pulled by a Stego, or 2 Parasaurs, or 4 humans

Safe Location (Optional)

• Somewhere such that it is difficult for external forces (Environmental Hazards, Other Dinos, Other Players, etc) to enter.
  
• Somewhere such that it is difficult for the dino to be tamed to cause damage to a player or area.

Tame Dino
# New Features: Complete rework of dino taming AI. Addition of Trust and Fear relational stats, as well as a broken stat. Addition of Player Stat "Dino Affinity".

• Co-exist with a dino until its fear towards you drops below a threshold
  
• Feed a dino until its fear drops beneath yet another threshold, and its love above a threshold
  
• Break a dino (Optional) until it's fully tamed

Why I advise the addition of new stats

Fear/Trust
By adding a relational model to any dino it can help create a larger amount of realism. A fully tamed raptor will gladly go kill a dilo (It's fear level toward that type of dino is low). That same raptor though may ignore your order to go attack a Rex (High fear towards Rex). However with a high enough trust level, it would follow your orders, no matter what.

These stats are integral in the taming process. First they fear you, and have no trust. Eventually there is little fear and no trust. Finally there is no fear and full trust. The base values for this could be altered (Thus increasing taming time) by changing the method of capture. Punching out a Trike would cause it to fear you personally, more so than the average person. But knocking it out with gas would leave fearing you no more than anyone else.

These stats could also always be in a state of flux. If you forget to feed the dino for a week, its trust might fall... If you repeatedly attack a tribe and fail, its fear towards them may rise.
Wild dinos could generate fear while a player is in proximity... eventually causing them to run.

But these stats are technically still optional, as is the future use of them. Truthfully it could be done with a simple timer initially... but it hurts the interactiveness of the taming process.

Broken
It is a logical break to allow faster taming for everyone. It also makes it such that you can delay part of the taming until you meet the level requirement for riding. (Riding could also require a certain amount of trust)

Dino Affinity
Increase Trust generation and Decrease Trust decline. Decrease Fear generation and Increase Fear decline (Allows you to move closer to wild dinos before they run). Decrease time to break the dino

The Full Story

You are walking through the brush when a beautiful Trike is seen in front of you. You tell a tribe member to quickly help you gather the parts needed for a wagon. While the wagon is being crafted, you tranq the Trike. With the help of your tribe mate, the two of you load the Trike on the wagon and walk it back to base, taking frequent breaks to ward off nearby Dilos and to keep the Trike unconscious.

Once back at the base you unload the Trike into a gated paddock that was previously created to hold Small/Medium sized dinos during the taming period. You then let the Trike rest until it wakes up. Terrified and confused the Trike tries to run from any people nearby, but after some time begins to calm down. A tribe member approaches the fleeing Trike cornering it, immediately the it lashes out until it can escape once again.

As more time passes the Trike begins to avoid the player, but not run. Eventually the Trike is only timid of tribe members, but no longer afraid. At this point you approach and offer it something to eat. Here a bond is beginning to form, the Trike's affection begins to rise towards you. More time passes and it realizes the tribe as a whole is not here to hurt it, it is no longer afraid of the tribe, in fact... it has come to love it.
Congratulations, you have now tamed a Trike.

At this stage, the Trike is good to keep around in base, perhaps it is used for a source of fertilizer, maybe for breeding... But this Trike will be used for gathering. You throw a saddle on it and it runs, it will not lash out, but is once again scared of whatever is attached to it. Eventually calming down you attempt to mount it... steering is the last thing on your mind as you hold on for dear life. The charging trike crashes into walls, throws you off, but in time eventually becomes responsive to your commands.
Congratulations, you have now fully tamed a Trike.

[AkiTsugi]

No. Overly complicated without reinforcing any sustancial elements of the current game. This is a game and every animal should be tamed completely different with your idea, which is way more work.

Not to turn down on your idea but it's easier. Make taming faster, but make it that you have to prepare to get good stats, if you do it on the spot you get, meh stats. Only those who have worked hard to maintain which dino they want to tame should get the beneficial stats.

[Shimizoki]

Originally posted by AkiTsugi:

No. Overly complicated without reinforcing any sustancial elements of the current game. This is a game and every animal should be tamed completely different with your idea, which is way more work.

Thank you, that is completely my intention. Right now the system is too passive, too simple, and honestly makes no sense. Would you be my friend if I punched you in the face till you passed out, then shoved food down your throat for 10 hours? No... I'm pretty sure you would wake up, and beat the snot out of me.
I also admit that endgame they should all be tamed differently, but some variant of what I proposed can be used. All dinos can optionally be knocked out and taken somewhere safe... or a completely in the wild tame can be used with my method. Then you can use the current food style passive tame (with some tweaks) on herbivores, carnivores can be the same... but you would need the ability to drop the food. (Or perhaps kill an animal for it and bait it to the corpse)

Originally posted by AkiTsugi:

Not to turn down on your idea but it's easier. Make taming faster, but make it that you have to prepare to get good stats, if you do it on the spot you get, meh stats. Only those who have worked hard to maintain which dino they want to tame should get the beneficial stats.

While I don't deny that you have a point, I do believe it is not the direction to go with what is supposed to be a survival game. There is some amount of realism compared to other genres. What I take this to mean is that if I need to eat or I die, (Cause that's how it works in real life) than it should take time to tame a creature. (Cause that's how it works in real life)
Preparation for better stats is a great idea, but removing the tame time I disagree with. 100 poor stat Rexs are still terrifying.

[Buster]

They are working on nonviolent taming for the dinos, both predatory ones and the herbivores. I can't wait to see what they have in store.

[AkiTsugi]

I know that is your intention but the work is not worth the results.

You clearly have no seen the first season of YuGiOh! Okay, I'm kidding but realistic, if you have a dog and you want it to learn you punish it. Sure it's completely different than what I'm saying but some force is needed to tame the wild carnivores that attack on sight. You don't tame Lions unless they're young etc. That would require too much work, and would mean you can't tame any wild dino.

Now, if you want me to makeup a reason for why knocking out dinos be tamed it's simple. Your implant actually lets you mind control them, and you're just giving them food to so they're more subjective to it. Food is the way to a man and a dino's heart.

I know I kinda took away from your thread but there has to be a line between complexity/realism and simple and not over bearing. I think too many tamed ways for each animal would require too much knowledge that you need to play the game well. That's why I don't think it's worth the work.

Edit: As for the non-violent taming of aggressive dinos, that probably will be only for some and probably the same system for all of them, which is what OP isn't referring to.

Now if we just leave it to mind control...

[Buster]

I don't know where your from but using pure force on larger predators or highly intelligent dogs such as german shepherds will only result in a mentally unstable animal that is dangerous to be around.

Using violence/force to obtain submission is a quick short term fix but will blow up on you down the line.

[AkiTsugi]

I'm replying in another post just so you can see my point clearly aside from the mind control BS I threw at you.

I did say that lower the time but also remove the stats equivalent to it. Right now they are still scary but you nerf them, and suddenly it is pretty simple.

Now I am not agreeing with less than one hour taming people. I meant around 3 hours for a rex with just raw meat, and subpar stats.

[AkiTsugi]

Originally posted by Buster:

I don't know where your from but using pure force on larger predators or highly intelligent dogs such as german shepherds will only result in a mentally unstable animal that is dangerous to be around.

Using violence/force to obtain submission is a quick short term fix but will blow up on you down the line.

NO one, at all said force or violence. I said punish. I was making a joke on the fact that they said you punch someone. Was not being serious, but you're wrong completely, because only in this game are dinos highly intelligent as dogs, they should PROBABLY be dumb as freak.

[Buster]

Originally posted by AkiTsugi:

Originally posted by Buster:

I don't know where your from but using pure force on larger predators or highly intelligent dogs such as german shepherds will only result in a mentally unstable animal that is dangerous to be around.

Using violence/force to obtain submission is a quick short term fix but will blow up on you down the line.

NO one, at all said force or violence. I said punish. I was making a joke on the fact that they said you punch someone. Was not being serious, but you're wrong completely, because only in this game are dinos highly intelligent as dogs, they should PROBABLY be dumb as freak.

http://www.animalcognition.org/2015/03/14/reptiles-can-learn-through-imitation/#

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/19/science/coldblooded-does-not-mean-stupid.html?_r=0

Do go on :p

[Shimizoki]

Originally posted by AkiTsugi:

...if you have a dog and you want it to learn you punish it. Sure it's completely different than what I'm saying but some force is needed to tame the wild carnivores that attack on sight. You don't tame Lions unless they're young etc. That would require too much work, and would mean you can't tame any wild dino. ...

That logic is also not quite sound, I would advise a quick read over Operant Conditioning[en.wikipedia.org]. There is a time and place for both punishment and reinforcement. But if you want to take that aspect it is totally fine, then we add a method to punish. However, force feeding an unconscious body does not fall under that category either.

[AkiTsugi]

Originally posted by Shimizoki:

Originally posted by AkiTsugi:

...if you have a dog and you want it to learn you punish it. Sure it's completely different than what I'm saying but some force is needed to tame the wild carnivores that attack on sight. You don't tame Lions unless they're young etc. That would require too much work, and would mean you can't tame any wild dino. ...

That logic is also not quite sound, I would advise a quick read over Operant Conditioning[en.wikipedia.org]. There is a time and place for both punishment and reinforcement. But if you want to take that aspect it is totally fine, then we add a method to punish. However, force feeding an unconscious body does not fall under that category either.

It wans't supposed to be sound logic. The was just a joke, on your joke about punching me out. Please don't dwell on it. What I'm saying is everyone needs a good punch at times.

[AkiTsugi]

Originally posted by Buster:

Originally posted by AkiTsugi:

NO one, at all said force or violence. I said punish. I was making a joke on the fact that they said you punch someone. Was not being serious, but you're wrong completely, because only in this game are dinos highly intelligent as dogs, they should PROBABLY be dumb as freak.

http://www.animalcognition.org/2015/03/14/reptiles-can-learn-through-imitation/#

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/19/science/coldblooded-does-not-mean-stupid.html?_r=0

Do go on :p

Okay, lets get this straight. Pre-historic. Assuming you follow evolution, we should assume that they were dumb, in fact before some major research on dinosaurs it used to believe that due to how reptiles brain worked that they had pretty darn tiny brains. Again, I'm not spewing fact because we can't prove completely new about dinosaurs, I wasn't referring to reptiles at all. I think you are bravely mistaken on that assumption.

Edit: Also, I am not saying I can confirm intelligence on brain size or anything, but that was just my assumption on evolution.

[Shimizoki]

Originally posted by AkiTsugi:

It wans't supposed to be sound logic. The was just a joke, on your joke about punching me out. Please don't dwell on it. What I'm saying is everyone needs a good punch at times.

I understood the initial joke, and appreciate that you understood that I was not attacking you when I made the previous statement.

[AkiTsugi]

Originally posted by Shimizoki:

Originally posted by AkiTsugi:

I understood the initial joke, and appreciate that you understood that I was not attacking you when I made the previous statement.

Don't worry, I just didn't want to ruin your thread talking about a joke. Hence the don't dwell on it.

[Buster]

Originally posted by AkiTsugi:

Originally posted by Buster:

http://www.animalcognition.org/2015/03/14/reptiles-can-learn-through-imitation/#

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/19/science/coldblooded-does-not-mean-stupid.html?_r=0

Do go on :p

Okay, lets get this straight. Pre-historic. Assuming you follow evolution, we should assume that they were dumb, in fact before some major research on dinosaurs it used to believe that due to how reptiles brain worked that they had pretty darn tiny brains. Again, I'm not spewing fact because we can't prove completely new about dinosaurs, I wasn't referring to reptiles at all. I think you are bravely mistaken on that assumption.

Edit: Also, I am not saying I can confirm intelligence on brain size or anything, but that was just my assumption on evolution.

Im not going to assume anything other than most invertebrates were dumb,(And now we are finding that even insects can learn from bad experince, wasps can remember faces and base their future actions based of previous experinces for up to two weeks) for decades, centuries even people thought birds namely parrots were dumb, it turns out they are as smart as chimpanzees, use tools and have distict langauges.

We are finding offically now that reptiles, some such as crocs, which were around with the dinosaurs are now being shown to be smarter than previously thought. It would be a huge act of faith to believe that just because dinosaurs were "first: that they were also dumb.

We are finding evidence of social interactions with T-rexes, more examples of parental care among other dinosaurs, and as such you need a fair degree of intellgence if you live in social situations such as raptors for example. Its highly likely that some of the herding dinos were likely smart as well.

And while I am sure some were smarter than others it would be wrong to simply assume that all were stupid.

[AkiTsugi]

The "crocs" that were around dinosaurs were completely different. These are an evolved type of crocodile. You can't assume that animals now and back then are the same and didn't intelligently evolve.


As for the "evidence" of a million years ago, is hardly evidence. I mean honestly, I'm not saying they were dumb as balls, but I wouldn't think of them as itelligent either.

Dinosaurs could have a parental instinct rather than actual intelligence found in all animals. I am not going to discuss this. It was my assumption and there's less proof against it.