Please clamp the over-damage again - it is skewing game balance!

[Vandragorax]

Hi Devs.

Please, for the love of all things holy.... clamp the over-damage on harvesting again!

What I'm actually referencing is the overflow bug, whereby you can harvest more resources out of one item (rock/tree etc) than is supposed to actually be in it, by doing more "damage" to it via increased melee damage.

You already fixed this in a patch not long ago, but instantly reverted the change because people started whining like spoiled brats that their 1000% melee damage T-Rex no longer harvested 100 meat in one bite.

I want to see this clamp set back in place because it is clearly ruining the balancing of the game, (case in point: all the nerf threads popping up for things like the Doedicurus 1 day after release), and there's no conceivable way they can get reliable feedback from players about the state of dino harvesting with this option still in place, since pumping melee damage into dinos and then harvesting with them skews all the results.

This is what I'm talking about, and why It frustrates me to no end.

This change happened in patch 181.0: http://ark.gamepedia.com/181.0

Clamped how much harvesting damage you can do to a resource to the remaining health of the resource (so that, for example, chomping a tiny dilo with little resource remaining in it with a massive T-Rex bit wouldn't give you way more meat than it could reasonably have had). This may have the effect of reducing harvesting amounts in some cases, but is a necessary fix to what was essentially an overflow bug. Will consider re-scaling harvesting amounts accordingly as we proceed.

And then this in patch 182.: http://ark.gamepedia.com/182.0

Restored the previous "overdamage" of Harvestable Resources, while we work in the coming days on a new balance for per-Dino Resource Harvesting multipliers -- unofficial servers can enable the limiting optionally with "ClampResourceHarvestDamage=true"


There has since been no balance for per-dino resource harvesting, and the unofficial server option to clamp the ridiculous over harvesting doesn't work so I can't even set the option on my private server.

Thanks for your attention.

[Quxudais]

sick of seeing the threads? very simple fix for that..

[Vandragorax]

Originally posted by quxudais:

sick of seeing the threads? very simple fix for that..

Thanks for your helpful comment! Really useful!

I'm not just sick of seeing the threads no, I actually want the game to be balanced and over-damage is exacerbating the problem.

I want to see clamped overdamage, to remove the "overflow bug" which was already fixed once, and for the harvesting dinos to then be balanced accordingly. I.e. maybe the Doed needs a speed boost because it can't harvest enough rocks in a certain time frame etc. But the devs can't even find this out without first clamping the stupid over damage. I want the devs to grow a pair and clamp it, and all the kids who whine about this will soon get over it and be used to the system how it was intended in the first place.

[Quxudais]

Originally posted by Vandragorax:

Originally posted by quxudais:

sick of seeing the threads? very simple fix for that..

Thanks for your helpful comment! Really useful!

I'm not just sick of seeing the threads no, I actually want the game to be balanced and over-damage is exacerbating the problem.

I want to see clamped overdamage, to remove the "overflow bug" which was already fixed once, and for the harvesting dinos to then be balanced accordingly. I.e. maybe the Doed needs a speed boost because it can't harvest enough rocks in a certain time frame etc. But the devs can't even find this out without first clamping the stupid over damage.

Your initial post was really no better than any post calling for nerfs. They are both the same thing, threads demanding a change because of something you don't like in a very negative manner.

This post I quoted was better since it included an acual and legitimate argument for clamping, even if it was still couched in hostility.

I don't think anything in the game at the moment needs a nerf personally. I think several things need to be redesigned. Alphas are completely uninteresting and a terrible execution of a great idea (mini-bosses), there should be at least one line of guns that are geared towards PvE, pipe and cable systems are terrible and lead to eye sores snaking through the sky, crop plots need to be placeable on buildings, we need an actual wall to replace using the horrible looking fences (which people are circumventing anyway using behemoth gates), fence foundation ghosts need to be changed to something tall so we can see where we are placing them etc.

As for your call for clamping over damage, I don't really quite get what it is you are asking for. I assume you are refering to some kind of cut off point in the + damage percentage stat after which additional point investment leads to diminishing returns. If there is a legitimate case to be made that such a thing would benefit balance, then it's a discussion worth having. That said if doing so would severly damage existing dinos with heavy stat investment already I'd say find another solution if it's even remotely possible to do so.

[Paganizer]

I kinda like to have the ability to improve harvesting, BUT it does make the melee% WAY to powerful compared to the other stats.

Currently all we do is a couple points in HP and then the rest in melee%. If there was a speciel stat for harvesting it would be more balanced.. that way you wouldn't get both insane fighting power against other dinos AND incredible harvesting, but have to choose whether it's a gatherer or a fighting machine.

[Quxudais]

Originally posted by Paganizer:

I kinda like it, BUT it does make the melee% WAY to powerful compared to the other stats.

Currently all we do is a couple points in HP and then the rest in melee%. If there was a speciel stat for harvesting it would be more balanced.. that way you wouldn't get both insane fighting power against other dinos AND incredible harvesting, but have to choose whether it's a gatherer or a fighting machine.

A harvesting stat would be interesting, and would seperate fighting dinos from pack animals in a way that does not currently exist. I wouldn't mind this, though honestly any such change would need someway to refund any spent points in existing dinos. Also I think meat harvesting should remain tied to damage if such change was made.

[Vandragorax]

Thanks for your input, although you clearly stated you have no idea what I'm talking about.

What I'm actually referencing is the overflow bug, whereby you can harvest more resources out of one item (rock/tree etc) than is supposed to actually be in it, by doing more "damage" to it via increased melee damage.

They already fixed this in a patch not long ago, but instantly reverted the change because people started whining like spoiled brats that their 1000% melee damage T-Rex no longer harvested 100 meat in one bite.

I want to see this clamp set back in place because it is clearly ruining the balancing of the game, (case in point: all the nerf threads popping up for things like the Doedicurus 1 day after release), and there's no conceivable way they can get reliable feedback from players about the state of dino harvesting with this option still in place, since pumping melee damage into dinos and then harvesting with them skews all the results.

This is what I'm talking about, and why It frustrates me to no end.

This change happened in patch 181.0: http://ark.gamepedia.com/181.0

Clamped how much harvesting damage you can do to a resource to the remaining health of the resource (so that, for example, chomping a tiny dilo with little resource remaining in it with a massive T-Rex bit wouldn't give you way more meat than it could reasonably have had). This may have the effect of reducing harvesting amounts in some cases, but is a necessary fix to what was essentially an overflow bug. Will consider re-scaling harvesting amounts accordingly as we proceed.

And then this in patch 182.: http://ark.gamepedia.com/182.0

Restored the previous "overdamage" of Harvestable Resources, while we work in the coming days on a new balance for per-Dino Resource Harvesting multipliers -- unofficial servers can enable the limiting optionally with "ClampResourceHarvestDamage=true"

There has since been no balance for per-dino resource harvesting, and the unofficial server option to clamp the ridiculous over harvesting doesn't work.

Now that you are educated, maybe you see my point of view.

[Quxudais]

I get what you are refering to now yes, but I don't see clamping as a neccisary or even worthwhile change. So dinos harvest a lot of resources if you heavily pump their damage stat, ok, why's it matter? The material requirement for building anything in the game is insanely high, so getting lots of materials per harvesting node from a dino you spent significant amounts of time aquiring and leveling seems perfectly fine to me. Perhaps the amount of extra the overkill amount generates needs adjusting, but I don't see why it needs removing all together. You are already making sacrifices in movement speed, health and carryweight by focusing so intently on damage.

Personally if you were going to go that route I'd prefer an entire redesign instead, something akin to the Harvest stat mentioned above (though again, only if points could be refunded). Otherwise all you accomplish is nerfing existing farming dinos and indirectly increasing the grind in a game that already has more of it than many Asian mmorpgs.

[Vandragorax]

Originally posted by quxudais:

So dinos harvest a lot of resources if you heavily pump their damage stat, ok, why's it matter? The material requirement for building anything in the game is insanely high

This is EXACTLY why it matters!!!! You just answered your own ignorance... How can they balance the material costs for crafting when there is such a huge variance between harvesting with a just-tamed animal, and one which has 1000% melee damage stat? I mean the difference is huge. Something like 15 thatch from a tree when I hit it with my Ape at 100% melee damage, vs. 800 thatch when I hit it with 1000% melee damage.

Surely you can see that's a problem?

They simply cannot balance the recipes (which needs doing) without first clamping this resource gathering, and setting a benchmark point for how much the harvesting dinos can harvest of said resources in said amount of time.

It just doesn't seem to me like they have any developers at all working on game balance and pushing through changes like this. All the focus is on adding more ♥♥♥♥ and appeasing all the cries for nerfing. They should get someone to seriously sit down and work out the game balance, and start making some tweaks and changes without fearing backlash from the community. They basically need to grow some balls and do these changes, it's for the greater good and this is early access for a reason. They are trying too hard not to piss off the vocal minority.

[DarthaNyan]

Originally posted by Drake:

182.1
* Limited overdamage (overharvest) of resources to 5x the total resource health, to avoid server lag giving hundreds of berries in one hit on a plant.

They can further reduce it to 3x, imo. Whiners gonna whine anyway.

Reducing overdamage cap less or fixing it completely will go against "better tools get you more resources and faster". That was the main reason of reverting it back then.

[Vandragorax]

5x is still WAY too much!

This is why people are now whining more that the Doed is "overpowered" because they are hitting a rock with 1000% melee damage and getting 250 stone in one swing.

These devs are just not doing themselves any favours.

[Vandragorax]

Originally posted by Nizidramaniiyt:

Originally posted by Drake:

182.1
* Limited overdamage (overharvest) of resources to 5x the total resource health, to avoid server lag giving hundreds of berries in one hit on a plant.

They can further reduce it to 3x, imo. Whiners gonna whine anyway.

Reducing overdamage cap less or fixing it completely will go against "better tools get you more resources and faster". That was the main reason of reverting it back then.

That's what I mean, they need to balance gathering dinos by speed or carry capacity, and giving that specific dino a unique multiplier to their own gathering of a certain type of resource based on their desired specialisation. This goes hand-in-hand with once again clamping the over-damage.

[Horrifying Hardons]

Originally posted by Vandragorax:

Originally posted by quxudais:

So dinos harvest a lot of resources if you heavily pump their damage stat, ok, why's it matter? The material requirement for building anything in the game is insanely high

This is EXACTLY why it matters!!!! You just answered your own ignorance... How can they balance the material costs for crafting when there is such a huge variance between harvesting with a just-tamed animal, and one which has 1000% melee damage stat? I mean the difference is huge. Something like 15 thatch from a tree when I hit it with my Ape at 100% melee damage, vs. 800 thatch when I hit it with 1000% melee damage.

Surely you can see that's a problem?

They simply cannot balance the recipes (which needs doing) without first clamping this resource gathering, and setting a benchmark point for how much the harvesting dinos can harvest of said resources in said amount of time.

It just doesn't seem to me like they have any developers at all working on game balance and pushing through changes like this. All the focus is on adding more ♥♥♥♥ and appeasing all the cries for nerfing. They should get someone to seriously sit down and work out the game balance, and start making some tweaks and changes without fearing backlash from the community. They basically need to grow some balls and do these changes, it's for the greater good and this is early access for a reason. They are trying too hard not to piss off the vocal minority.

Attempting to do "serious" game balance during a time where feature implementation is a focus, is an absolute waste of time.

That said, i do not see how clamping will actually solve the problem per say. Currently harvesting wood with a a 600-800% damage mammoth yields just about the amount of wood i would expect, without me getting frustrated of the already VERY slow farm rates on official servers. Same goes for getting flint with an ankylo, 1400-1500% damage, and id be pretty damn frustrated if i got lower resources after a clamp, as its already rather slow.

So, as they already said, the clamp was re-introduces until the dino harvesting models were complete. Lets assume they dont want to slow gathering rates anymore then they already are, and take some average harvesting value based on what we already get, then what is the actual difference?

Sure i might not be able to get "100" meat with a trex, but whichever dino has the role of getting meat, would. Have you tried getting chitin with a trex? Its slow as hell, but try with a sabertooth, some dinos already appear to have some modifiers toward resources, same with the ankylo and flint, and those harvesting rates are just fine on official server and shouldnt really be changed.

I remember after the clamp, going out on my trike to get narco berries, and i was collecting at almost the same rate of going by hand, i was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ furious, ain't nobody got time fo'dat.