Let's talk about the procedurally generated Arks

[Silberfuchs]

Hi there!

I love the idea of procedurally generated Arks, as it means you will never run out of maps you have to explore in order to learn them, no guide or tutorial will be available.

However, if I look at the preview screenshot something is bothering me:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=778875411

While the map looks really good, it's less suited for Ark gameplay, simply because it lacks flat surfaces to place your base on. I know that The Island for example isn't a lot better, but The Center is really awesome in this regard, with a lot of flat spots which are obviously made to place a base on them.

If you take a look at it you will see that almost all cliffs, rocks, plateaus, rock needles/mesas, rock bridges and mountains have a flat top. It's ideal for base building.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/473850/

Due to the unfortunate fact that in Ark foundations don't go very deep and don't snap to anything other than other foundations, all bases will end up standing on pillars. I find that unesthetic, annoying (especially when your dinos or eggs fall through the ceilings) and simply less attractive.

I would prefer if the algorithm for the terrain would create landscapes which are similar to what you can find in Vietnam and other parts of East-Asia:

http://yourvietnamtravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/v4.jpg

Just without the steps on the flanks, but definitely with the flat tops. An algorithm which basically creates platforms on different heights and connects them via "ramps". Such a terrain would look a bit less natural, but would benefit gameplay much much more. If you cover everything with rocks, trees and put some "regular" round shaped mountains and hills between it, people won't even notice it, and it will look as normal and as gorgeous as The Center does.

I'd also like an option to create choke points, single access cliffs or small single entrance caves in order to build well defendable bases, as this is what I love to do. It would create neuralgic "premium locations" on the map tribes could fight over. If a server admin wants all places to be of about the same strength, he should be able to lower the generation of those spots.


What do you think? What are your hopes, expectations, fears with the system? I know it's a bit early to tell, especially without knowing how it will work and how the final maps will look like, but one can theorize, right?

[Shane]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=778875411

That screenshot is different for me, i love building smaller structures and creating village style areas, where it has several purpose built homes designed for different needs, and part of that enjoyment is fitting them into map locations where they look good as you approach them from diffferent angles.

Rather than huge flat long, tall buildings designed to try and be everything a survivor needs, the fav has always been whack up a behemoth gate so all dinos can go inside, wall it off so nobody can hurt the dinos, and it can store everything under the same roof.

but thats the difference between PvP and PvE base building... for me i see a rewarding challenge in design in that screenshot !!

In fact the rest of your post explains exactly why i enjoy all that, what your describing in effect is a map generator that delivers a perfect landscape to achieve all what i have said above. The foundations have always been the limiting factor in this, always have been...

The first place that came to mind for a large base on that screenshot was the beach area a little left of the centre, buildings across the pool of water to total hide it from view, that would probably work with all foundations from the view we have.

i see a rewarding challenge for base building myself...

[Sistermatic™]

It's procedural. If map is no good, reroll. Depending on seed scope it's as good as infinite.

The added benefit, assuming replication, if a good map seeds with all the things you want it will be shared readily. Standard fare with proc' gen'.

[Mi]

@Shane: I admire people like you who have the patience and skill to just work with the environment they're given. :)

I always like having a big, more or less flat area for my builds and, more importantly, my kibble farm.

I played on The Island, Valhalla and The Center so far and I liked the center best so far.

On Valhalla I even mindwiped so I could move to the frozen lake in the winter biome after pumping fortitude xD

So yeah, I don't know if I'll like the generated maps or not... I might accept a challenge! :)

[Shane]

I think your going to get enough land to make any kinda base, after all that screenshot is only a small part of what your going to have to choose from im assuming.

[Silberfuchs]

Originally posted by The Widower:

It's procedural. If map is no good, reroll. Depending on seed scope it's as good as infinite.

I don't think you understand my concern. If the algorithm for the generation always creates that kind of terrain, I can reroll the dice as often as I want, I will always get a bumpy map. Unless I put the terrain height slider on 0 which will lead to an entirely flat map barely above sea level.

But I want a map with huge height differences, but flat "tops".

[Darmaniac]

but who will play a procedure map if you dont own a server ? its to play single player ? that sux

[Silberfuchs]

What?

Why can't you play on a procedurally generated map as a client on a server? You don't have to own it!

[Mi]

Yeah, there will be servers with procedurally created maps.

[moTom]

"foundations don't go very deep and don't snap to anything other than other foundations"

Actually, that's not true. Since I built a lot of platform saddles and rafts lately I know that you indeed can snap foundations next to another foundation without the need to touch the ground.
Just snap an ceiling (thatch roof works also fine) to the foundation and you can snap another foundation under that ceiling right next to the first foundation. After that you can destroy the ceiling.

[Silberfuchs]

Originally posted by Mofo:

"foundations don't go very deep and don't snap to anything other than other foundations"

Actually, that's not true. Since I built a lot of platform saddles and rafts lately I know that you indeed can snap foundations next to another foundation without the need to touch the ground.
Just snap an ceiling (thatch roof works also fine) to the foundation and you can snap another foundation under that ceiling right next to the first foundation. After that you can destroy the ceiling.

I know that technique. It only works on rafts.

[Mourlie]

Originally posted by Mofo:

"foundations don't go very deep and don't snap to anything other than other foundations"

Actually, that's not true. Since I built a lot of platform saddles and rafts lately I know that you indeed can snap foundations next to another foundation without the need to touch the ground.
Just snap an ceiling (thatch roof works also fine) to the foundation and you can snap another foundation under that ceiling right next to the first foundation. After that you can destroy the ceiling.

The eggs and dinos might still fall through though...

[Spiketail_Drake]

You are forgetting that the screenshot shown is from an earlier version of the terrain generator, so it might generate flat terrain and cliffs now. I am probably going to do a Nomadic play on the generated map(s), just to make it somewhat more interesting.

[*Umpa*]

I was really looking forward to PG Arks, but after trying to set a server up I think it's not ready for prime time. There are not enough instructions or tutorials to get one working correctly. ASM randomisation is just that far too random, creates unusable arks. The list goes on. I really like the idea, but there should be some defaults you can enable that work, so you can tweak.