ARK: Survival Evolved

ARK: Survival Evolved

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ciliv 2017 年 9 月 6 日 上午 11:41
is it allowed to blackmail people?
I just red that the alphatribe blackmailed some weaker tribe in global chat that they have to give them csgoskins or they will be wiped.

can i take screenshots and send them to the wc support or does wc dont care about this?
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正在显示第 151 - 165 条,共 177 条留言
Monty 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 9:57 
引用自 Aralyn
Report it. That ♥♥♥♥ is extortion and illegal. Not just against a games ToS. It is actually illegal and could get then jail time if its serious enough.

No, just, no... It is not illegal...
Monty 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:01 
引用自 Be4st
I can't seem to find any legislation on extorting people for digital items, so Monty may be correct. That totally needs looking at as you could use that as a legal loophole. Threaten someone for digital items and play on the fact that no legislation anywhere forbids it.

There IS a legislation. If you threaten real life violence, property damage, or theft, that is grounds for extortion in multiple countries and states. However, digital extortion requires the use of ransomware, DDoSing, Malware, or the leaking of sensitive information of a person, and demanding something, or else. People are seriously misunderstanding and honestly, not taking seriously the allegations they are making of this tribe.
最后由 Monty 编辑于; 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:01
Aralyn 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:03 
引用自 Monty
引用自 Aralyn
Report it. That ♥♥♥♥ is extortion and illegal. Not just against a games ToS. It is actually illegal and could get then jail time if its serious enough.

No, just, no... It is not illegal...

It IS illegal. Go learn some law kid.
Monty 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:04 
引用自 Aralyn
引用自 Monty

No, just, no... It is not illegal...

It IS illegal. Go learn some law kid.

Cite the law they're breaking.
ḄеꜬѕṫ 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:07 
引用自 Monty
引用自 Be4st
I can't seem to find any legislation on extorting people for digital items, so Monty may be correct. That totally needs looking at as you could use that as a legal loophole. Threaten someone for digital items and play on the fact that no legislation anywhere forbids it.

There IS a legislation. If you threaten real life violence, property damage, or theft, that is grounds for extortion in multiple countries and states. However, digital extortion requires the use of ransomware, DDoSing, Malware, or the leaking of sensitive information of a person, and demanding something, or else. People are seriously misunderstanding and honestly, not taking seriously the allegations they are making of this tribe.
That is still a loophole and needs to be corrected.

So if I threaten someone (for example a youtuber) and tell them that I will hunt them down in the games they play and stream snipe them every chance I get unless they pay me digital items or money, you don't think that is an offence? I do, and so do many others. Be it extortion or digital extortion, that would land someone with some serious time if successfully extorted.
Monty 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:11 
引用自 Be4st
引用自 Monty

There IS a legislation. If you threaten real life violence, property damage, or theft, that is grounds for extortion in multiple countries and states. However, digital extortion requires the use of ransomware, DDoSing, Malware, or the leaking of sensitive information of a person, and demanding something, or else. People are seriously misunderstanding and honestly, not taking seriously the allegations they are making of this tribe.
That is still a loophole and needs to be corrected.

So if I threaten someone (for example a youtuber) and tell them that I will hunt them down in the games they play and stream snipe them every chance I get unless they pay me digital items or money, you don't think that is an offence? I do, and so do many others. Be it extortion or digital extortion, that would land someone with some serious time if successfully extorted.

That would fall under the category of cyberbullying and harassment, not extortion. Cyberbullying is a bannable offence in most online communities and while it can be tough to get legal action taken, it's not out of the realm of possibility for excessive behaviour, but that's not what we're dealing with here, is it?
最后由 Monty 编辑于; 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:11
ḄеꜬѕṫ 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:13 
If you deem that cyberbullying and not what OP said, then you sir, are deluded. They are nearly the same thing.

OP example = Give me 'X' or I kill you in game.
My example = Give me 'X' or I kill you in game.

Both are the exact same thing, so how can you defend one with law and say the other isn't illegal in any way?
最后由 ḄеꜬѕṫ 编辑于; 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:14
Uueerdo 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:17 
引用自 Monty
引用自 Be4st
I can't seem to find any legislation on extorting people for digital items, so Monty may be correct. That totally needs looking at as you could use that as a legal loophole. Threaten someone for digital items and play on the fact that no legislation anywhere forbids it.

There IS a legislation. If you threaten real life violence, property damage, or theft, that is grounds for extortion in multiple countries and states. However, digital extortion requires the use of ransomware, DDoSing, Malware, or the leaking of sensitive information of a person, and demanding something, or else. People are seriously misunderstanding and honestly, not taking seriously the allegations they are making of this tribe.

I think it's been established that what was demanded could be seen to have a monetary value, and no one is disputing that a threat was made; so I think the remaining issue is whether the threat was one which could result in the scenario being legally considered extortion.

You bring up "real life violence, property damage, or theft" and I'd say that probably covers a lot of cases, but (as I brought up a few pages back) it's also considered extortion for an employer to threaten to fire an employee unless they meet demands inappropriate for the workplace (usually thought of in the context of sexual harassment). I would imagine a person threatening a person with a phobia to expose them to the subject of that phobia to extract something of value from that person might also be considered extortion. I am in no way saying this threat is anywhere near as severe as those, just pointing out that the intimidation need not be physical (in the case of the workplace example) or even financial (in the case of the phobia one).
Monty 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:18 
引用自 Be4st
If you deem that cyberbullying and not what OP said, then you sir, are deluded. They are nearly the same thing.

OP example = Give me 'X' or I kill you in game.
My example = Give me 'X' or I kill you in game.

Bother the exact same thing, so how can you defend one with law and say the other isn't illegal in any way?

Because you threatened to track them through multiple games and servers and stalk them on social media. You have to be mindful of what you say and do and what it relates to. The OP is talking about a solitary instance in a game, thisnis a form of bullying, but it's also a part of the game which negates the illegality of it. Now if the Alpha said they would track them from server to server, then they could report it to WC, but to get legal action taken, the stalking and harassment would have to span across multiple platforms and involve more than simply threatening win in a game. Theybwould need to threaten real violence or malicious acts to get the police involved.

Still think it's the same thing? Even your suggestion of stalking on youtibe would probably only get banned off a couple sites.
Uueerdo 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:21 
引用自 Monty
引用自 Be4st
That is still a loophole and needs to be corrected.

So if I threaten someone (for example a youtuber) and tell them that I will hunt them down in the games they play and stream snipe them every chance I get unless they pay me digital items or money, you don't think that is an offence? I do, and so do many others. Be it extortion or digital extortion, that would land someone with some serious time if successfully extorted.

That would fall under the category of cyberbullying and harassment, not extortion. Cyberbullying is a bannable offence in most online communities and while it can be tough to get legal action taken, it's not out of the realm of possibility for excessive behaviour, but that's not what we're dealing with here, is it?
Actually, following through with the threat would be cyberbullying and harassment; making the threat to extract things of monetary value is extortion; and I think it's been established the thing threatened (to be done) does not have to be illegal for it to qualify as extortion.
最后由 Uueerdo 编辑于; 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:23
ḄеꜬѕṫ 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:21 
引用自 Monty
Because you threatened to track them through multiple games and servers
Good point. That would be considered stalking, but what if it was just the one game? That would still be considered cyberbullying and extortion in my eyes. We really need a cyber law lawyer in here lol.
Monty 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:23 
引用自 Uueerdo
引用自 Monty

There IS a legislation. If you threaten real life violence, property damage, or theft, that is grounds for extortion in multiple countries and states. However, digital extortion requires the use of ransomware, DDoSing, Malware, or the leaking of sensitive information of a person, and demanding something, or else. People are seriously misunderstanding and honestly, not taking seriously the allegations they are making of this tribe.

I think it's been established that what was demanded could be seen to have a monetary value, and no one is disputing that a threat was made; so I think the remaining issue is whether the threat was one which could result in the scenario being legally considered extortion.

You bring up "real life violence, property damage, or theft" and I'd say that probably covers a lot of cases, but (as I brought up a few pages back) it's also considered extortion for an employer to threaten to fire an employee unless they meet demands inappropriate for the workplace (usually thought of in the context of sexual harassment). I would imagine a person threatening a person with a phobia to expose them to the subject of that phobia to extract something of value from that person might also be considered extortion. I am in no way saying this threat is anywhere near as severe as those, just pointing out that the intimidation need not be physical (in the case of the workplace example) or even financial (in the case of the phobia one).

The problem is you can't use that scenario simply because it's covered under different laws all together, that's why Cyberlaw was created and this isn't enough of an issue to constitute legal actions since the easiest solution to it is simply that if the ToS that we all signed deems this case wrong, WC can ban the alpha tribe and nothing more need be done. If this alpha comes back and continues, or follows the group through other games, maybe, but then it goes to steam, if the abuse continues, it can eventually hit cyberpolice, but you have a hierarchy.
Monty 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:24 
引用自 Be4st
引用自 Monty
Because you threatened to track them through multiple games and servers
Good point. That would be considered stalking, but what if it was just the one game? That would still be considered cyberbullying and extortion in my eyes. We really need a cyber law lawyer in here lol.

If it's one game, it's an EULA and ToS issue, which the company who owns the game is responsible for. The authorities wouldn't even get involved.
最后由 Monty 编辑于; 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:27
Uueerdo 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:31 
引用自 Monty
The problem is you can't use that scenario simply because it's covered under different laws all together, that's why Cyberlaw was created...
It seems the longer cyberlaw is around, the more closely it mirrors regular(?) law; especially as those "just" pixels more frequently have real world value attached to them.

引用自 Monty
... and this isn't enough of an issue to constitute legal actions ...
Agreed. I was never suggesting anyone actually take legal action; I'm more interested in the idea that it might be technically illegal since they brought it out of game. I'd imagine the legal consultation fee would dwarf any punitive damages that could be awarded; though people making such threats could maybe benefit from doing a weekend of community service.
Monty 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:44 
引用自 Uueerdo
引用自 Monty
The problem is you can't use that scenario simply because it's covered under different laws all together, that's why Cyberlaw was created...
It seems the longer cyberlaw is around, the more closely it mirrors regular(?) law; especially as those "just" pixels more frequently have real world value attached to them.

引用自 Monty
... and this isn't enough of an issue to constitute legal actions ...
Agreed. I was never suggesting anyone actually take legal action; I'm more interested in the idea that it might be technically illegal since they brought it out of game. I'd imagine the legal consultation fee would dwarf any punitive damages that could be awarded; though people making such threats could maybe benefit from doing a weekend of community service.

Community service is never a bad thing, but on a different note. I think to understand how this plays out, you'd need to understand severity and escalation.

In IT, we have a method of escalation for problems. Call the Help Desk, that's a level 1, if they can't do it, they call a field technician, a level 2, if they can't do it, system admin or more experienced tech, level 3, ect..

Problems are escalated, the chain for this would be, WC for issues in this game, Steam if it extends past this game, ISP if it extends into social media, and if it begins going into real life threats, Cyberpolice and/or Police.

This is a very rough idea of the chain of custody. Now for severity. In IT we have 4 levels, at least for me, sev 4 being low, sev 1 being High. Sev 4 is very localized my mouse doesn't work, my keyboard is sticky, blah, blah. Sev 3 is standard breakfix, sev 2 is usually a big deal, network is down, or something. Sev 1 means crap has hit the fan, blackout, security breach, virus stealing data. Yeah.

I'd say we're at a sev 4 calling help desk for this alpha tribe, IF we're even that far.

最后由 Monty 编辑于; 2017 年 9 月 8 日 上午 10:47
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发帖日期: 2017 年 9 月 6 日 上午 11:41
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