Fire throwing Mangonels.....

[Kalvix]

Is there actually a way to use these or are they just one of those worthless things that was never fixed? I just had a siege battle where they spent 20+ mins trying to shoot a clump of 180 horsemen standing still and hit 5 people.

And as for using it in open fights I'm lucky if they hit at all before the enemy is so close that they just over shoot non stop.

[StrangeLittleMan]

I had a mangonel killing an enemy general with it's first shot, and he was the only one of the entire unit to die with that salvo. A once in a lifetime epic snipe. I had 4 mangonel units and appart from that lucky shot they didn't do game-changing damage. Their accuracy is just awfull.

Except for sieges they are pretty useless. And it's always better to besiege a castle untill the enemy comes out to face you. Because the more gates and towers you destroy, the more repairs you have to pay when you take the castle.

So there's no upside to building mangonels.

[Kalvix]

Thought as much =( annoying, chose hojo as I've never used siege weaponry in shogun before so thought it might be a fun change... guess theres a reason iv never used them (and that is the ONLY thing I can find that would count as siege weaponry)

[VoiD]

I played Shogun2 at release, they weren't perfect but they did hit their targets, they were useful.

Nowadays yeah they are completely worthless, even in sieges I'd rather bring something that didn't slow down my troops so much instead, can't justify building siege equipment in Shogun, apparently they were OP in multiplayer so they were nerfed into this useless state for no good reason, they were never a big issue in single player, and japanese castles don't really require siege weapons so they are just pointless.

Edit: They seem a lot better with Darthmod, you might find more mods to buff them on steam workshop, if you're playing Vanilla and want to use them, you'll need it.

[Kanjejou]

yeah even with +40 accuracy (reaching a whoopin g60 from 20 they still cant hit ♥♥♥♥...

they are beyond useless... for their accuracy they need massiv ammo buff.

i used 18 squad and even with 60accuracy they were only able to destroy 1 tower and killed 50 soldiers...before runnign out of ammunitions most shot end out of the aiming circle.

they are worthless even fire bomber are more usefull, and they suck too

[shiggies713]

exact opposite of FOTS though, where artillery is king.

[Jäger ^^]

Its king on the campaign, but the question is though, is it cost/effective in avatar conquest??

[Kanjejou]

at least if i make +5armor fire bomber they can blast wall and survive arrows.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by Kalvix:

Thought as much =( annoying, chose hojo as I've never used siege weaponry in shogun before so thought it might be a fun change... guess theres a reason iv never used them (and that is the ONLY thing I can find that would count as siege weaponry)

European cannons are a siege unit. They're like a bombard from med 2.

There is a Hojo European Cannons unit too.

You need to build the Nanban Quarter to get them.

[The_Yogi]

Originally posted by Mile pro Libertate:

European cannons are a siege unit. They're like a bombard from med 2.

There is a Hojo European Cannons unit too.

You need to build the Nanban Quarter to get them.

Yeah, but they're not much better. Accurate, but can only be relied upon to knock down gates and walls. Only have few ammo too. In field battle, they tend to only knock down infantry, because the cannonballs lacking shockwave and not kicking gravel all around when hitting the ground like its supposed to.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by The_Yogi:

Originally posted by Mile pro Libertate:

European cannons are a siege unit. They're like a bombard from med 2.

There is a Hojo European Cannons unit too.

You need to build the Nanban Quarter to get them.

Yeah, but they're not much better. Accurate, but can only be relied upon to knock down gates and walls. Only have few ammo too. In field battle, they tend to only knock down infantry, because the cannonballs lacking shockwave and not kicking gravel all around when hitting the ground like its supposed to.

It's actually pretty much what a bombard would realistically do, not having shells and such.

Whether that makes for good gameplay is debatable I guess.

Luckily, if you're an arty lover there's always FotS. But yeah, in base Shogun 2 there really is no such thing as artillery or siege equipment, which probably hurt the game's wider appeal.

[Kanjejou]

Is there a mod to buff fire mangonels or fire bomb thrower? how can you create a mod for this?

[Countersnipe]

The purpose of these specific type of siege units is:
1. To completely destroy buildings, walls, towers.
2. To install fear (moral penalties) in enemies.

You shouldn't use this unit type to actually destroy enemies. Remember that in Total War you don't have to kill a bunch of units in order to win the game. You're often better off making units break and then chase them down.

If I were you I'd do the following:
- Stop using siege units.
--- They're expensive. It takes time to research the tiles needed in order to construct the buildings needed to manufacture the units. The units cost money to make. The units cost money to upkeep and are useful only in very specific situations.

- instead siege enemies out of castles and make them fight you.
- Fight generals on the field because battles are much more fair on the pitch. You can then go to capture castles once you beat back enemies.

But just to recap, don't expect siege units to actually rack up kills. The only siege unit that really does that are the rocket guys (forgot their name), when you use them against cavalry charges or big clumps of enemies. And even then you don't always get lots of kills.

[Kanjejou]

Originally posted by Countersnipe:

The purpose of these specific type of siege units is:
1. To completely destroy buildings, walls, towers.
2. To install fear (moral penalties) in enemies.

You shouldn't use this unit type to actually destroy enemies. Remember that in Total War you don't have to kill a bunch of units in order to win the game. You're often better off making units break and then chase them down.

If I were you I'd do the following:
- Stop using siege units.
--- They're expensive. It takes time to research the tiles needed in order to construct the buildings needed to manufacture the units. The units cost money to make. The units cost money to upkeep and are useful only in very specific situations.

- instead siege enemies out of castles and make them fight you.
- Fight generals on the field because battles are much more fair on the pitch. You can then go to capture castles once you beat back enemies.

But just to recap, don't expect siege units to actually rack up kills. The only siege unit that really does that are the rocket guys (forgot their name), when you use them against cavalry charges or big clumps of enemies. And even then you don't always get lots of kills.

I don't them to be killers... even if it would be nice... i want them to be usefull.
even if its just to break wall and put fire to fortifications or towers...

I want to play sieges. I like the concept, of sieging its why i wanted t try mangonels, fire bombs ect...

but only canon work as i expected allowing me to break towers and walls then ease up the assault on the castle...

firebomb should be burning/blasting wall like hells, make units panic/disorganise and for god sake be sturdier and/or more numerous...plus the unit is lost if they fall below half unit strenght...its insane. but they shoot too slowly to disorganise any squad except yari in spear wall formation.

costly+unreliable+high upkeep+disappear if lose more than half the mans= beyond useless.

[Primordial Soup]

You'd be better of with the Hojo Fire Rockets. Trust me. Effects look great too!