What causes Defections?

[Alpha0]

I was fighting against Tosa with like 4000 Troops or something in that area and when we attacked them we lost half our troops dropping us back at 1,000+ while they had 3,000+. I retreated to my fort seeing how much expirence the other faction had more than my troops. But somehow we still won the battle. By the way, I also lost my general due to this defection. Did Tosa give it to me or was my general not loyal enough?

[Delta 1038]

Numbers may be an important force multiplier but numbers aren't everything. There's also quality and in this case; location. Siege battles does lower the number of active units (Meaning number of units that can fight at a time) for the attacker, equalising the fight for the defender. If that was what you are asking.

What was the loyalty of your general beforehand?

[Alpha0]

I mean they were really leveled up and I had no clue what his loyalty was. I didn't bother to check since as long we were winning battles he wouldn't betray me. I think it has something to do with the people I'm at war with also, since I hired another general and ordered attack on enemy troops. Ended up losing half my army again and losing one who directs troops in battle. So back to phase 1 again.

[Delta 1038]

Originally posted by Shad0w:

I mean they were really leveled up and I had no clue what his loyalty was. I didn't bother to check since as long we were winning battles he wouldn't betray me. I think it has something to do with the people I'm at war with also, since I hired another general and ordered attack on enemy troops. Ended up losing half my army again and losing one who directs troops in battle. So back to phase 1 again.

There you go; the general had a pretty high rank and you hired a new general.

When your general has a higher rank than your Diamyo, he'll get a Loyalty penalty

"Delusions of grandeur" or something like that. It's more or less saying "I can do better than this idiot" and he's thinking of running his own clan.

Whenever you hire a new General, you get the "Upstart General" penalty. Moving between your social class is pretty frowned upon during that time.

[Alpha0]

You know alot about this game, how many hours do you have?

[Dad]

Originally posted by Shad0w:

You know alot about this game, how many hours do you have?

I don't think he got it from the game dude, i mean the pentaly stuff he did get from the game but I think this guy knows one or two things about that time period in japan already just from what happend in reality, it's very interesting to read up on about imo I did too :)

[noodle]

Yeah Delta's got it right. Just from a game standpoint Honour and Loyalty are huge for your generals in Shogun 2 and FoTS, I always try to keep my generals happy and my Daimyo and Heir ahead of the pack with command stars just to avoid a catastrophic betrayal

[Mile pro Libertate]

It's funny for me because in all my campaigns, I've never had a general defect, let alone from 'delusions of grandeur.'

I wish it would happen though, it sounds like it could make the campaign interesting.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by Legion:

Originally posted by Shad0w:

You know alot about this game, how many hours do you have?

I don't think he got it from the game dude, i mean the pentaly stuff he did get from the game but I think this guy knows one or two things about that time period in japan already just from what happend in reality, it's very interesting to read up on about imo I did too :)

Yes, there is a lot of evidence that suggests Hideyoshi was frowned upon by Nobunaga's senior retainers because he was an "upstart."

Many historians also think Nobunaga deliberately put his "upstart" commanders into high positions (Hideyoshi was just one of many that Nobunaga raised through the ranks) because he knew they owed their status to him personally, and on the other hand, he kept his older retainers under close watch and delegated less and less to them as the years went on, presumably to keep power plays from happening.

We still don't know what motivated Akechi Mitsuhide to do what he did. Lost forever to time.

Anyway, I guess the equivalent in the game would be assigning commissions and marrying daughters to vassals and bribed and recruited generals, while putting metsuke into the stacks of the older generals, and/or giving them tinier stacks ;)

[Blehh.....]

Originally posted by Delta 1038:

Originally posted by Shad0w:

I mean they were really leveled up and I had no clue what his loyalty was. I didn't bother to check since as long we were winning battles he wouldn't betray me. I think it has something to do with the people I'm at war with also, since I hired another general and ordered attack on enemy troops. Ended up losing half my army again and losing one who directs troops in battle. So back to phase 1 again.

There you go; the general had a pretty high rank and you hired a new general.

When your general has a higher rank than your Diamyo, he'll get a Loyalty penalty

"Delusions of grandeur" or something like that. It's more or less saying "I can do better than this idiot" and he's thinking of running his own clan.

Whenever you hire a new General, you get the "Upstart General" penalty. Moving between your social class is pretty frowned upon during that time.

What if both loyalty and diamyo stars are maxed out? Do the generals still defect?

[BastardSword]

General stars only affect their command power, i.e. the bonuses they give to morale and fighting power for their troops.

I think General honor has to be at maybe 1 or 2 circles for a defection to happen, at least it seems that way from my experience.

I don't really get the "your general wants to start his own clan" thing, I've never seen a general defect and create their own clan. What I've seen is me attacking an enemy army, then I get the "your general has defected" message, and the general and half my army joins the enemy army.

And holy necro batman!

[Blehh.....]

Originally posted by BastardSword:

General stars only affect their command power, i.e. the bonuses they give to morale and fighting power for their troops.

I think General honor has to be at maybe 1 or 2 circles for a defection to happen, at least it seems that way from my experience.

I don't really get the "your general wants to start his own clan" thing, I've never seen a general defect and create their own clan. What I've seen is me attacking an enemy army, then I get the "your general has defected" message, and the general and half my army joins the enemy army.

And holy necro batman!

I had a general that had its loyalty circles all maxed out and when I used him and his army to attack another, he defected on me! I thought the circles meant less chance of betrayel and with them all maxed out, I'd though I would get zero generals backstabbing me either from a bribe or this defect I just had.

But yeah, thankfully I had another army next to it to help wipe his ass clean for turning on me.... The enemy didnt even have a masuke on him anywhere that I could have seen that he could have used to bribe my general and even then, he should be immune to bribes since his loyalty circles are maxed out unless thats not really maxed out and theres still a chance to defect or be bribed?

[Telvido_cat]

1700 hours only 1-2 loyalty defected. You must have beaten the 0.00001 RNG chance for 6 loyalty or maybe mod hurt you?

[Blehh.....]

Originally posted by Telvido_cat:

1700 hours only 1-2 loyalty defected. You must have beaten the 0.00001 RNG chance for 6 loyalty or maybe mod hurt you?

I only played for about 80 hrs in total, according to steam and had one guy turn on me and yeah he was a maxed out loyalty general too. And no I wasn't playing with any mods on.

[markeason]

Disappointed. Lots of hours played and have never had a general defect :(

[D3F14NT]

Sorry for th necro, just had this happen to me for the first time after hundreds of hours.

Sure enough it was the delusions of grandeur status id never seen before.

Damn daiyamos son turned bc i left dad defending main hold and he never saw action while son led campaign march.

"wtf just happened?!" <me 10min ago lol