I dont get Shogun 2 Morale system

[Nanase Sena]

I recently started being Shogun 2 and I was playing the Oda Clan and sometimes my units would randomly drop morale and shatter. I had battles where my bar is not even close to my favor and my units won't brake(and win the battle), but other times when the bar is even, my units will break and run away. Also close to the end of a seige battle when both mine and the enemy general is died, and I have more units(only units left for the enemy are usually bow samauri or ashigaru, and I have Yari ashigaru and/or some samauri units) my units will route when I run out and try to kill them or just sit back and let them climb the walls.
I really like this game, but when my units break, I dont want to play anymore.

I use mostly Yari ashigaru and bow ashigaru with at least one general, sometimes I dont have a general cause they die, but I would use katana samauri.

Btw I understand that units closer or within the general radius thingy will have more morale and not break. And I know that ashigaru units don't have high morale to begin with.

[CHE]

Originally posted by The Will of the Abyss:

I recently started being Shogun 2 and I was playing the Oda Clan and sometimes my units would randomly drop morale and shatter. I had battles where my bar is not even close to my favor and my units won't brake(and win the battle), but other times when the bar is even, my units will break and run away. Also close to the end of a seige battle when both mine and the enemy general is died, and I have more units(only units left for the enemy are usually bow samauri or ashigaru, and I have Yari ashigaru and/or some samauri units) my units will route when I run out and try to kill them or just sit back and let them climb the walls.
I really like this game, but when my units break, I dont want to play anymore.

I use mostly Yari ashigaru and bow ashigaru with at least one general, sometimes I dont have a general cause they die, but I would use katana samauri.

Btw I understand that units closer or within the general radius thingy will have more morale and not break. And I know that ashigaru units don't have high morale to begin with.

There are other aspects of morale that you didn't mention. The Total War Encyclopeda in the game mentions other aspects, and includes a video. Are you sure it's none of those aspects?

I learnt about Total War morale in Rome Total War and Medieval 2 Total War. The Medieval 2 Total War game manual explains it thoroughly on pages 52 & 53:

http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/4700/manuals/manual.pdf?t=1405939529

[Nanase Sena]

The only thing I could say is that I dont have my units focus. I usually have them spread out in order to flank and etc. Other than that, there isnt other things that doesnt keep my unit from routing.

[bb]

another solution is to get mods - radious imo but there are plenty to choose from.

plenty of the popular mod packages rebalance unit morale to be more "realistic" and engaging. might be worth a look!

[Turtler]

Firstoff: It sounds like you're paying waaay too much attention to the status bar. But that Gold-Red Bar is just a measure of how many units are on the battlefield as a whole. So If you had twenty broken units of one man apiece, it would probably be more than a 200 man unit. So I'd almost advise ignoring it altogether and looking at your units and what's happening, because it certainy doesn't have as big an effect on whether units stand or break.

A good indicator would be looking at your units' individual bars and banners. They should give you a decent idea of how they're faring, and if you mouse over them it'll even give you a nice overview of what they think of things and why.

Beyond that, CHE's link should do a decnet job of explaining it.

[Destin Faroda]

Here's a list of all existing morale modifiers for Shogun II:
https://github.com/DestinFaroda/Shogun2TotalRealism/wiki/Morale-System
https://github.com/DestinFaroda/Shogun2TotalRealism/wiki/Morale-Naval

The values are heavily modified, so don't pay too much attention to them. Still, it does show you all the conditions influencing your unit's morale.

[Tocki]

Its a little bit tricky in the beginning, because, as you already said, your moral is low.
So keep your general alive, let him get experience, because he pushes your moral. Use rally or inspire often. Inspire is very good to save a wavering unit from routing.
Try to get unit experience, so dont send them to the death. Additionally a routing unit drops the moral of near units, it might end in a massrout.
upgrade your buildings to recruit higher skilled units.

When you lose your general, the moral drop of your army is very big, so get back, avoid the fight for a moment, until your units dont care that your general died.

[Nanase Sena]

Thanks everyone for the help, I get it.

I was also wondering when and why should I "upgrade" my units from Yari and bow ashigaru units to samauri. I finished one campaign with almost all ashigaru and it took forever.
Wouldnt more units be better than better units? cause if for every bow samauri you can get 4 bow ashigaru units. I think 4>1.

[mergele]

You should always have Ashigaru as the bulk of your forces and only a few samurai as elite troops.

[Turtler]

I'm more radical than mergele (especially in ROTS and FOTS) but I agree. Trying to field a pure Samurai force is usually too costly, too volatile (you have to build up new units and disband old ones to get the very best), and too limited (since gunpowder in particular is somewhat rare for Samurai).

As for whether more units are better than quality units, that depends. I could win both with fewer unis and with better ones, it just depends on the situationa nd your style. So keep figuring it out.

[Bacara]

I usually tend to try and get samurai armies when possible. I'm in an Otomo campaign about 30 turns in and have started building samurai from a province that has an Armourer. I rarely use Ashigaru in my armies once I can start getting Samurai when I desire. But just as Turtler said it all depends on the situation and your style. My friend loves spamming Ashigarus and I like to have samurai armies and one army made from Katana Cavalry.

[CHE]

I haven't played the game much, but if I wanted to know whether to use more ashigaru or more samurai, I'd try some multiplayer games, and see what the victorious players were using. :D I reckon there's no more accurate test for army composition than battle against fellow human players.

[Turtler]

@CHE

I'm less sure about multiplayer games. Certianly, the multiplayers are usually a cut above us computerbashers and you'll get no better test of the unit types in battle than with an honest multiplayer match.

But the problem is that they only account for battles, but in campaign they're only half the story. Multiplayer puts two armies together Tabula Rasa and lets them duke it out with no future and no past. Campaigns require you to live with the results. And as Realm Divide looms large and you're struggling through your eight straight battle on the road to Kyoto, things like cost effectiveness, survivability, recruitment delays, and the like really start to tell.

Multiplayer campaigns on the other hand.....

[CHE]

Originally posted by Turtler:

@CHE

I'm less sure about multiplayer games. Certianly, the multiplayers are usually a cut above us computerbashers and you'll get no better test of the unit types in battle than with an honest multiplayer match.

But the problem is that they only account for battles, but in campaign they're only half the story. Multiplayer puts two armies together Tabula Rasa and lets them duke it out with no future and no past. Campaigns require you to live with the results. And as Realm Divide looms large and you're struggling through your eight straight battle on the road to Kyoto, things like cost effectiveness, survivability, recruitment delays, and the like really start to tell.

Multiplayer campaigns on the other hand.....

Cost-effectiveness is an issue in multiplayer battles, too. Yet, as you said, there are factors which are unimportant in one-off battles, but are important in campaigns. In Total War campaign battles, I try to bring plenty of missile units, to kill enemies at a distance... I also try to bring enough cavalry to run down all routing enemies, so that, ideally, none will survive to fight against me in a future battle.

[Turtler]

Originally posted by CHE:

Cost-effectiveness is an issue in multiplayer battles, too.

Indeed. I had a brief attack of stupid when I was trying to phrase that. What I was going for was more "What will balance your ability to win the campaign and your budget in the long run?"

Originally posted by CHE:

Yet, as you said, there are factors which are unimportant in one-off battles, but are important in campaigns. In Total War campaign battles, I try to bring plenty of missile units, to kill enemies at a distance... I also try to bring enough cavalry to run down all routing enemies, so that, ideally, none will survive to fight against me in a future battle.

Agreed indeed. That's something I do too, particularly with cavalry or trying to fight sieges. In a oneoff battle (either multiplayer or single) you can win if you have one soldier alive and on the field when the other doesn't (though that's not something most players would like to settle for).

In campaign that can be literally fatal even if you do win.

Hence why Ashigaru are almost always going to have a place...

[Kilrathii]

Ashigaru need good troops like naginata fighting around them. If you have a long line with like 8 ashigaru dont expect them to hold for long. Once one breaks they all rout.

In campaign vs AI i always use mixed armies. If ashigaru can hold mid for just a little bit while samurai cut through the enemy flank the ashigaru earned their pay. Try place a naginata between 2 ashigaru they hold much better.