Strategy Question - road improvements, sometimes a strategic liability?

[Stevonian]

I like to build up farms and roads quickly. When I take a new territory I repair damaged buildings and get the farms and roads up to full strength. This is probably a habit I've developed since my Empire and Napoleon experiences. In those two games you also get a trade and growth bonus for better roads (I don't know if this applies to Shogun 2 or not). I also make chi research a priority with farm and road development an priority for me.

But I was thinking about ways I can improve my strategy and I had a thought. Is it possible that road construction may have more drawbacks than benefits? Consider these thoughts I had, and then please respond with your thoughts.

First, I'm not sure if you get the town growth and trade bonuses you get with games like Empire and Napoleon. Those benefits alone would probably make the roads worthwhile. But...

Second, I realize that improved roads help with healing bonuses. But here's the problem with that: If I am moving through my territories towards the enemy I don't need to be healed. But if I am being pushed back into my territory the roads will heal my opponent when he captures the territory. With advanced roads throughout my territories my opponent will have quick access to healing as he goes and conquers.

Look at this idea in the reverse. If I am steamrolling my opponent and his roads are excellent I will heal as quickly as the castles get repaired. If the roads are crap I'll be slowed down because the bad roads slow me AND because I won't heal quickly even when the castle is repaired. It is to my advantage (when advancing through the opponents territories) for him to have great roads.

If I am correct and great roads provide more benefits for an invading force, are great roads a liability? Again, if someone knows of trade or growth benefits let me know. Money cures a lot of weaknesses.

I'm discussing S2 single player here. While FOTS and multiplayer discussion is welcome, my question is about S2 singleplayer. Thus, if you share your thoughts about this question using FOTS or multiplayer as your context let the community know so we know which versions may or may not benefit from your advice. And thanks for your time!

Thanks for any insights!

[Iceira]

yes road do give bonus to trade and growth ...the more population that is better tax u get...

i use to have high tax until i notice no incresed population. so there is only ship trade and diplomacy trade cash...

i upgrade all land to a minium ...depend on cash flow ,, dont waste cash on castle and roads until u can afford it max castle to stronghold thats the 3turn build if its at front nad u need to defend ..same with road max 1200 ( until later upgrade it then u can afford it )
look at special bonus icon at map ( smith, fletcher , temple , horse , pirated cave,gold )
those lands i upgrade to max castle if i can afford it , try see it as best unit output land...lol

go for the 6 merchant trade port 10 trade ship per spot ...that gives u huge bonus then they all are declare war on u...

and just before that happend its good if u have next reseach farm and can afford to build it

its better to have all lands with same level then many low and some very high...watchout for hunger ...use lowest unit to defend with lowest upkeep, and use general with 1-4 better unit if u can afford it, try get them with experiance , use ambush with general so they can get 2-4 commendation then they can match samurai units in spear wall and depend if u can fight and know what u are doing...

try not make to many castle they are not worth it......imo only later in game i can afford it..imo

[Iceira]

depend on game level npc upgrade castle anyway... and if u dont have spare food becuase u upgrade too, then u will have hunger stavation...and this is bad...allways have better farms then castle so u can get a cash flow to expanding armys

[easytarget]

Transportation in general in any TW game for me is all about not making every province a source of recruits.

The only way to make this strategy work effectively is with effective movement from the placs you recruit specific units to the place they are needed.

Most of my provinces in any TW game are dedicated to making money as that is what ultimately fuels my campaign.

[Iceira]

yeah ..but he allways want the enemies cant move fast in front line...then u need to erradicate the road and rebuild later... but then u will allso be slow...so its not worth it at all ..i only tear down building if special resource is there and npc dont build the building thats need to suppport that resource...
and you allso need armys its a tough choise expand and have huge armys its a war game not a lets upgrade all... but thats what we actual do...

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by easytarget:

Transportation in general in any TW game for me is all about not making every province a source of recruits.

The only way to make this strategy work effectively is with effective movement from the placs you recruit specific units to the place they are needed.

Most of my provinces in any TW game are dedicated to making money as that is what ultimately fuels my campaign.

Good points.

I found it impossible to beat the game on Legendary without getting more focused on my development.

In the same way that a person will leave themself vulnerable if they try to defend every town by spreading their forces out, you will not maximize economic health if every province is upgraded in all ways.

So yeah, best thing I can advise OP is:

- Keep taxes at Normal for growth. Before you get food surpluses, consider keeping it at Low or even Minimal (depending on your faction situation). The town growth makes a huge difference later. Only go to High for a turn to build up a reserve for a war, or Very High during an emergency.

- As you reasoned OP, I agree that roads can be a big liability. The faster rate of travel can make invading armies appear in your heartland quickly. You only need the best road at a few "hubs" (ideally your recruitment centers) that fan out to the strategic "frontiers", which shift depending on what faction you are. Most roads can be left unimproved to slow invading movement, and this saves you a lot of money to use for markets (more on that below).

- In most of my towns, I made sure there was a Market. Since only several towns were used for recruitment, I would actually demolish something like a Yari dojo and build a market instead. This pays off in a big way late campaign. Markets are imo the one of the best, if not the most, cost effective buildings you can construct. They are cheap, but will really give you a tax boost later on due to the growth bonuses. Plus, if you do have to raise taxes, it lessens the hit to growth you incur.

And of course, Markets let you get Metsuke, which imo is one of the keys to winning. On Legendary, it's a lot easier to just bribe armies then to fight the AI with all of its buffs. Having tons of markets lets you recruit a Metsuke quickly where he is needed in case one them gets killed. Sure, they start off at lower level, but when the AI starts spamming stacks with no generals in them, you don't need a particularly high rank Metsuke anyway, especially with bonuses from research.

- Don't worry about upgrading your castles and dojos for the absolute best troops: it's more important to get some territory under your belt, and Ashigaru work just fine for that for a surprisingly long time. After about 5-8 years game time, you need Yari Samurai. Yari Sam will do most jobs just fine and you can forego wasting all of that money building elite units.

- As has been said already, don't worry about upgrading all of your forts. You need to stay offensive anyway. Most of my pronvinces still had the base level fort even at the end of the game. Now obviously, for a very strategic chokepoint, you might consider a castle.

- As has also been said, keep in mind that the AI will start to really upgrade its forts about a third into the game's timeframe, so keep a good food surplus. You want food surplus for reinforcement and productivity bonuses anyway.

The thing is, you don't have to necessarily keep upgrading your farms to keep good food surplus: just upgrade a level or two in your core provinces, but keep those core province forts at base level. Then, when you take the AI castles, you have extra food in case the AI didn't upgrade farms enough. Also consider demolishing the Rice Exchange, which the AI will build: many people keep those because of financial bonuses, but it takes -1 food. I usually destroy the Exchange and put it back down to a Market. Often, this is enough to take a captured province that had -1 or 0 food go to a 0 or +1 food.

[Iceira]

agree with mile pro l...

just get all agent up... ninja sabo armys then enemies have double or triple armys... u need them so u can jump attack the other armys.. metsuke is for enemis agent only...

all agent that dont have a job todo put them in a rmy or castle to get XP...

and u need them monk/priest adap religion convert is importen allso

so forget about metsuke all place for cash.....if land dont have special resouce

then build that building that you have fewest agent in...thats the key no matter what sooner of later u need high level agent then all declare war on you...

try do best honor at daimon ..reason is other will hate u a little lesser ..try research better honor allso can help abit... this sounds odd but try this at a campaign and see it do matter

[Stevonian]

Thanks to all for replies. I feel pretty good about what I've been doing because it seems to match everyone's advice so far.

I try to get markets in every town, and I don't upgrade past the market. (I also don't upgrade all the buildings and castles much. The roads I've been building DO tend to gtet my reinforcements to me quickly, so there's that. Also, as someone pointed out, I finally noticed the growth bonus for roads). Agreed - rice markets are a bit much and not worth the loss in food.

I'm also a supply-sider (lol) as I tend to get the lowest tax rates I can. By the end of the game I've got low taxes but so much growth that my revenues are excellent (and hapiness).

Farms are critical, and I prioritize them. Sounds like roads are more a benefit than a hinderance, so I'll stick to them as well.

Thanks again to all!!!

[easytarget]

Good luck in your campaign and enjoy a thoroughly entertaining game.