Yari Ashigaru bad without Yari Wall?

[Very serious person]

Playing a battle in the campaign I won with ease but I did something wrong on that turn and I reloaded the quicksave I had so I had to fight again and this time I rushed things a bit because I had already fought this battle before. I lost the same battle two times and realized the only thing different was that I forgot to put the Yari Ashigaru in wall formation and I noticed that they don't hold at all if you don't put them in that formation. I am imagining things or is it supposed to be like this?

[Mile pro Libertate]

Yari wall is one of their strengths.

Other units have superior morale and combat skill at recruitment, all other things equal, while the yari ashigaru have the stand-off cability of yari wall. The stand-off capability can negate much of an enemy's otherwise superior melee skill.

[BastardSword]

Yari ashigaru get massive offensive and defensive bonuses when they are in spear wall. If they are high rank they might do ok out of spear wall, but usually they'll just get smoked by samurai units.

[Very serious person]

Originally posted by BastardSword:

Yari ashigaru get massive offensive and defensive bonuses when they are in spear wall. If they are high rank they might do ok out of spear wall, but usually they'll just get smoked by samurai units.

I've seen the win engagements against Yari samurai whilst not paritcularly high ranked

[markeason]

Originally posted by Very serious person:

Originally posted by BastardSword:

Yari ashigaru get massive offensive and defensive bonuses when they are in spear wall. If they are high rank they might do ok out of spear wall, but usually they'll just get smoked by samurai units.

I've seen the win engagements against Yari samurai whilst not paritcularly high ranked

And not in spear wall ?

In that case the samurai unit must have been highly fatigued, attacked in flank / rear, under missile attack, general recently fled or dead, or a rebel unit.

[Red Spot]

Originally posted by markeason:

Originally posted by Very serious person:

I've seen the win engagements against Yari samurai whilst not paritcularly high ranked

And not in spear wall ?

In that case the samurai unit must have been highly fatigued, attacked in flank / rear, under missile attack, general recently fled or dead, or a rebel unit.

Pretty much how wall formation can easily be OP for a hoeman but not so much for the AI.
I let highly armored yari samurai chase my cavalry while I destroy the rest of the AI and then turn around to wack the exhausted samurai with whatever I feel like using.
Any attribute the units have can be used much better by a hoeman than the AI will ever be able to do.

[Very serious person]

Originally posted by markeason:

Originally posted by Very serious person:

I've seen the win engagements against Yari samurai whilst not paritcularly high ranked

And not in spear wall ?

In that case the samurai unit must have been highly fatigued, attacked in flank / rear, under missile attack, general recently fled or dead, or a rebel unit.

No, no. I meant in spear wall. Not very intuictive, the elite unit loses against its peasant version.

I initially asked the question because it felt so weird to me that just hitting a button would make so much difference, from routing in seconds to being to hold or even beat some samurai units

[markeason]

Originally posted by Red Spot:

Originally posted by markeason:

And not in spear wall ?

In that case the samurai unit must have been highly fatigued, attacked in flank / rear, under missile attack, general recently fled or dead, or a rebel unit.

Pretty much how wall formation can easily be OP for a hoeman but not so much for the AI.
I let highly armored yari samurai chase my cavalry while I destroy the rest of the AI and then turn around to wack the exhausted samurai with whatever I feel like using.
Any attribute the units have can be used much better by a hoeman than the AI will ever be able to do.

It can be kinda fun trailing the units behind your cav can't it. Not tired enough yet? Right, back over the hill again then. They pretty much rout as soon as you turn to face them in the end.