Realm Divide questions

[Silver]

Is it ok to start looting cities that yield let's say more than 3k gold after realm divide? I used to avoid it before Realm Divide because it would lower the daimyo honor, but now that I dont have to worry about diplomacy for the rest of the game, is this the only way to "stay afloat" when you have so many enemies to deal with?

Also, should you bother to make vassals after Realm Divide, or are they programmed to break their vassalage and betray you and join the shogunate?

[markeason]

I usually turtle pre-RD until there are only 5 clans left, one of which is my ally, and only two are of a significant size. If I am able, I allow another clan to take Kyoto and become Shogun, whether they are my ally or not. The reason being, they leave Kyoto undefended apart from the garrison units, making it incredibly easy to take when the time comes.

To your point, I never loot in the game but, the following will happen if you loot after RD.

If you loot a province, you affect the public order. This means you will have to garrison the province with a force and/or agents and construct buildings for happiness/repression for many turns as well as adding likely rebellions to the enemies arrayed against you. It will make the end game run a drawn out slog.

Now, if instead of looting, you make that province a vassal (not after RD but after becoming shogun), you now have a clan that is not subject to the RD negative relationship modifier; is a guaranteed trade partner that will earn you ~1500koku/turn in trade (instead of the 100koku/turn the province would get you in tax); will soon provide a full stack army and go to war against your enemies; you don't need to worry about public order in the province; and they cannot declare war on any of your other vassals.

Now multiply that by 20 vassals and you have an insane income, immeasurably large army and can sit back and let your vassals finish the campaign for you (almost).

Eventually the vassals opinion of you will sour because of your continued expansion. To counter this, every now and then you just gift them 1000 koku or so to improve your relationship, which is nothing compared to the money you are making from them.

[BastardSword]

Having low honor reduces the public order in ALL your provinces. After realm divide you need your people happy, not unhappy and constantly rebelling. Having high honor gives you a public order bonus. Keep the people happy.

[EmotionallyBroken]

Thats why I always go for honor boosting things. Summer son, mirror, the traits that add honor, it can only have a maximum of -3 from looting, after that it stops, so if you have 9 honor and nothing else reducing it, you still get the full 6, and can still destroy your enemies into submission while you build up some strength somewhere.

or do it the easy way that mark suggested :)

[YaFilthy]

generally it worth to loot 1 time if you find a town over 30k but overall happiness is preferred because of move limits... Vassel micro management is worthwhile for a more historic play through but it will take some time learning the game mechanics of each vassels because some are flat out not worth it you also have to understand how they can get you in proxy wars even with a ally, back stab you, steal bases you might of wanted but you were a few moves behind generally 1 is enough to push enemy territory also need to know how to use diplomacy features.

But i never run full honor happiness mods lol i might have to try that since ive wanted to RolePlay a pirate general campaign.

[markeason]

Originally posted by YaFilthy:

generally it worth to loot 1 time if you find a town over 30k but overall happiness is preferred because of move limits... Vassel micro management is worthwhile for a more historic play through but it will take some time learning the game mechanics of each vassels because some are flat out not worth it you also have to understand how they can get you in proxy wars even with a ally, back stab you, steal bases you might of wanted but you were a few moves behind generally 1 is enough to push enemy territory also need to know how to use diplomacy features.

This is correct for vassals before you become shogun.

After you become shogun, they cannot get you into wars because you are at war with everyone else anyway.

They can expand as fast as they like because realm divide has happened and every province they take counts towards your victory condition.

As a trade partner they will earn you 10x more than as a tax (unless they have a gold mine or fertile soil).

They each contribute a free, full stack army to your war.

You don't need to waste time sorting out religion or happiness, you just move straight through.

There really is no downside to forming vassals after becoming shogun.

In fact I am inspired to trying a run where, after becoming shogun, I make a few vassals and then see if I can disband all my armies and let the vassals finish the campaign for me.

[YaFilthy]

ok well get shogun then have date and those horsemen retake kyoto see what happens and yes ive lost kyoto becuase i got ganked to hard by sea in the rear and only have 1 stack on kyoto or my vassels take land then i have to move or cant replenish or defend siege battle and get stuck in a 10 move field fight. So if your falling behind in moves you really should forgo the vassel just fly your banner unless you have a good understanding of each clan and vassel diplomancy mechanics.

[markeason]

Once you have mastered diplomacy, you realise that you don't need an army :)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3084015094

[Silver]

yeah just an update, but new vassals you make after realm divide wont automatically declare war on you next turn. in fact, it should be a priority for you to start making at least one or two vassals after realm divide because the initial few turns after RD will be the hardest with you short on cash, your army stacks usually in the wrong places, and just adding one extra province with a few hundred gold income to your realm (unless you can loot it for say more than 5k gold) is a way worse option than turning it into a vassal and then opening a trade route to them, with usually fills your coffers with around +1k more gold per turn per vassal and with the bonus of them ready to defend their territory if declared war on by any of the factions you are at war with (which is almost everyone else lol).

However, if you make too many vassals and your vassals border each other, there is a chance one vassal will declare war on another vassal (as they are not allied with each other) and then they'll force you to pick one and declare war on the other or break alliance with the attacked vassal to avoid war with the attacking vassal (which i however think is worse in terms of diplomacy and will have a bigger negative impact on all other vassals of yours witnessing what happened, but correct me if i am wrong)

[MFD Suraj]

this can happen with allies but not with vassals.

[markeason]

Originally posted by Silver:

yeah just an update, but new vassals you make after realm divide wont automatically declare war on you next turn. in fact, it should be a priority for you to start making at least one or two vassals after realm divide because the initial few turns after RD will be the hardest with you short on cash, your army stacks usually in the wrong places, and just adding one extra province with a few hundred gold income to your realm (unless you can loot it for say more than 5k gold) is a way worse option than turning it into a vassal and then opening a trade route to them, with usually fills your coffers with around +1k more gold per turn per vassal and with the bonus of them ready to defend their territory if declared war on by any of the factions you are at war with (which is almost everyone else lol).

However, if you make too many vassals and your vassals border each other, there is a chance one vassal will declare war on another vassal (as they are not allied with each other) and then they'll force you to pick one and declare war on the other or break alliance with the attacked vassal to avoid war with the attacking vassal (which i however think is worse in terms of diplomacy and will have a bigger negative impact on all other vassals of yours witnessing what happened, but correct me if i am wrong)

Make the vassals after becoming Shogun, not after Realm Divide, (especially if you trigger RD before you have taken Kyoto).

If you trigger RD before taking Kyoto, any vassal you have will get the RD relationship penalty and will rebel in time. Any clan that you make a vassal after RD and before taking Kyoto will, when you take Kyoto, get an RD penalty at the time you take Kyoto and will also rebel in time.

The safest time to make vassals is after becoming Shogun. They will not get the RD penalty at any time.

After becoming shogun you can make as many vassals as you like, I usually end a domination with about 20 - 25. Vassals are not able to declare war, so they never declare war on each other. They still get the expansion penalty as you gain more provinces / vassals, so you need to throw them some koku every few turns to keep them happy, but it is nothing compared to the amount you get from them in trade.

The only risk to your empire is that, if you still have an ally after becoming shogun, they will likely choose to attack one of your vassals at some point, then you have to choose between defending your vassal or helping your ally. This is an easy decision. The vassal province counts towards your total provinces, the ally doesn't. So, defend the vassal because you probably need the ally's provinces for victory if you are playing a domination campaign.

While your ally and your vassals are fighting the clans that you are at war with, position your armies ready to take your ally's provinces when he declares war on one of your vassals.

[MFD Suraj]

quote: markeason
"so you need to throw them some koku every few turns to keep them happy",
only cause you are too kind with them.

[markeason]

Originally posted by MFD Suraj:

quote: markeason
"so you need to throw them some koku every few turns to keep them happy",
only cause you are too kind with them.

LoL

Only because I can't be bothered to fight them :)

[MFD Suraj]

Of course :-)
I personally got too many surprises on the past , and won't let them take more the 2 province , but using them like mercenaries is for sure practical.